Getting last HHT2/3 on a coticule

[BakerAndBadger]

Hi
Honed my first straight yesterday and got what would be an acceptable shave from it but it only managed to pass HHT 2 or 3 once I'd honed using the dilucot method and then stropped on a pasted board. Any tips on how to get it sharper? I'm sure it's just my technique but I'd like to understand what I may have done wrong.
Set the bevel, worked it out at about 14 degrees - maybe too fine for the blade? It's an old Fanal from Solingen that I picked up in a junk shop on Friday. There seems to be no obvious defects on the bevel but I've only got my eyes to judge that - no microscope and my magnifying glass is somewhere in my fly tying kit.
I dont have access to lapping film (yet) and I really want to get it right on my new coti so any help will be very welcome.

Cheers,

Paul

 

[jkh]

14 degrees? Also, your HHT 2/3 was after a pasted strop? What paste are you using?

 

[BakerAndBadger]

Yeah the HHT was after stropping on my whipped dog balsa strop. The paste is CrOx followed by FeOx, 0,3 and 0,1. I'm thinking that I might not have done enough x's on just water before calling it a day on the coti.
Yeah 14 degrees, I haven't changed the geometry of the blade with tape or other. I did bread knife it so it may be a little more obtuse now.

 

[Kentos]

I think I was getting easy HHT2 off of a Coticule after a good stropping on linen and leather.

Is the razor still not sharp enough for you at HHT2/3? Or are just interested in getting it to a higher
HHT?

All my kamisori pop HHT root in, and I like them that way. I would try to get to HHT2 off the Coticule/linen/leather first. Then strop that edge maybe 5 laps at a time on crox and test each time. When that maxes out move to the Feox and do the same.

I am not a fan of Crox/Feox, preferring CBN and Poly diamond.

There many ways to skin this cat .

 

[Kentos]

Btw how many dilutions are you doing before going to water? If you dilute too quickly you won't get the most out of your stone.

 

[linguist]

continue x strokes only with water until hht3 without stropping. then use only leather strop for the HHT4. after that use crox very lightly 10 laps. go to plain leather strop 100 laps. now you got HHT5 root in.

 

[Doc226]

I would agree with above, you should be able to get at least HHT 3 or 4 or a coticule after stropping.

Make sure you dilute slowly, when finishing on water do at least 60 laps-THEN do another 60 laps with a few drops of mineral oil.

Strop and re try the HHT, you should get a 4.

I think a HHT5 is almost impossible with larger thinner grinds.

This HHT was on a Fili 14 (8/8), this thing was sharp as you can see, I still did not get a HHT5, I always heard the ping, I called it a HHT on the video because there were some not captured by the audio-LOL

 

[linguist]

if the hair falls not pop, i think it is still HHT5.

 

[jkh]

Yeah the HHT was after stropping on my whipped dog balsa strop. The paste is CrOx followed by FeOx, 0,3 and 0,1. I'm thinking that I might not have done enough x's on just water before calling it a day on the coti.
Yeah 14 degrees, I haven't changed the geometry of the blade with tape or other. I did bread knife it so it may be a little more obtuse now.

Okay, I wanted to be sure you were not lifting the spine and honing like a knife.

As Kentos already mentioned you need to focus on just the Coticule. Do your dilucot then check HHT, strop on linen/leather and check HHT. After you get where you want to be then start looking at what pastes do to the edge.

 

[BakerAndBadger]

So, I should be able to get a 2 or 3 on the coticule before stropping? I know that the bevel is set correctly as t pops hairs no problem, guess I'm maybe not going long enough with each stage before diluting. Any tips on when to dilute?

 

[linguist]

try "unicot" it is easier and quicker.
and yes hht2-3 without stropping.

 

[gary haywood]

i'd recomend unicot it realy is bullet proof and provides a very good coticule edge . with unicot you shoild easily get a 3 plus of the stone... dilucot takes weeks to months of practise ...

 

[PapaFish]

Yes. HHT2 or 3 is possible before stropping from most any stone you can shave off of (this does not mean you do not need to strop on plain leather [I don't strop on linen since I don't have linen]). I find that if I am not able to get a consistent HHT3 all up and down the blade, I haven't spent enough time on water (or I am using too much pressure, or I should add a touch of soap to the water, or...). I can't comment on HHT4+ since I have a tendency to use more wedge-like grinds, so there's really no "ping" sound to begin with. If you were able to shave with the razor, you have a good bevel. You can try shaving with it and concentrating on different parts of the blade. I have a blade that is hard to hone at the very heel because of the geometry of the blade (thus is hard to shave with), and it usually takes 2 or 3 rounds of honing to get that part of the razor shaving right.

 

[BakerAndBadger]

Well I just gave my razor another fifty strokes on my leather strop and it seemed to do the trick. Certainly an HHT3 and all he way along the edge. Finally I'm happy with my first hone! Here's to the next attempt.

 

[BakerAndBadger]

By the way, I tested it with a quick pass WTG and it was fine too. Not as good as my whipped dog but getting there!

 

[paco664]

By the way, I tested it with a quick pass WTG and it was fine too. Not as good as my whipped dog but getting there!

congrats... nothing like shaving off an edge you created.......

your edges will improve daily now....

 

[PapaFish]

congrats... nothing like shaving off an edge you created.......

your edges will improve daily now....

Keep practicing on the coti and one day you will look back and say, "when I started, I used pastes, and I didn't get this good of an edge!"

 

[danjared]

My standard suggested readings:
http://coticule.be/the-cafeteria/topic/235.html
http://coticule.be/the-cafeteria/topic/266.html

 

[Slash McCoy]

14 degrees is very acute. Normally 16 to 17 degrees is the sweet spot. However if you are getting the shave you like out of it, leave it be. The shave is the objective, after all.

As your skill improves, you may begin to find that such a small bevel angle gives a harsh and unforgiving shave. If this happens, you might try finishing with a single layer of tape, 10 light laps after you have done your conventional laps on your finishing stone or film or pasted strop. This gives you a very small compound bevel. It will probably work best if you keep it small... only 10 laps or so. If you don't like it, it is then a simple matter to rehone to just the primary bevel again. Once again though, if you are happy with the shave then leave it alone. If it ain't broke, don't break it.

How exactly are you measuring and calculating your bevel? And breadknifing does make a big difference, so you may want to re-measure, if knowing is important.

 

[BakerAndBadger]

Funny you should ask. I used a bevel calculator made by some fella called Flash McJoy or something like that! Might not have been as accurate as it could have been as I don't have a micrometer but I reckon after bread knifing I have increased the angle a little. Will check it out again this weekend. In any case just did another WTG pass this morning before work and I don't know if it's beginners luck or my magic coticule but I had a lovely irritation-free shave. Big thanks to the designer of the bevel calculator!