GEM Jr Lather Catcher Question

[Henrik]

Could some educated people please give some useful information about the age of this sweet razor patented 1900/1901? The 8 blades that followed says GEM Damaskeene on one side and (of course) GEM Cutlery CO NYC on the other.
I really don´t dare to use the wooden handle at all because I would hate to see it degenerate by me using it. So I am using it with my trusty Star handle. Sweet shaver it is.

 

[Henrik]

..No one..?

 

[Galhatz]

I am also very much interested. It is my favorite razor.

 

[Galhatz]

Btw, i think if you applied a few coats of polyurethane sealant it would provide good water proofing to the handle. The folks at the brush restoration sub forum can point you to the right product.

 

[Henrik]

I have spent hours doing some serious googling on the Junior Bars. Some people state that theirs are 1907´s, 1910´s etc etc. Do the dating refer to the earliest ads found or what?

So in short I suppose my general question is; are there members among us that have an idea about the timeline for the Junior Bars? Some have scroll works on them and some ones (like mine) has none of that. And some come with wooden handles and some come with variations of different metal handles.
Thanks

 

[Henrik]

... when checking here and there- mine sans the wooden handle-only the head- is commonly referred as to be a 1910..

 

[garyg]

I understand from Waits' source that the "Junior" designation came out in 1907.

 

[Henrik]

Yes I have drawn similar conclusions about the junior being released in 1907.
But then again- based on the same patents (1900/1901) GEM launched several other juniors over the years. What do they look like..?
My particular razor is suggested to have seen the lights of day in 1910 (or 1911).

..Waits- I just got to grab a copy of that book soon..

 

[garyg]

Well, looking at Waits again (can't see how to post it) the case you show with "Junior" in noncursive (as opposed to his picture of a 1908 Junior in cursive, it might then be the 1911 as he labels it. But on that there's no mention of the wooden handle

 

[Sled Dog]

Pinpointing a date on these old lather catchers can be tough, and yours does not seem to be an exception.

I also looked at Waits, and could not come up with a definite date for your razor. (You can download Waits for a reasonable price)
It almost appears that the head on yours is early (1906), the handle looks like its from 1907-09, yet the case graphics looks like its from 1911

I did see an identical one to yours on another forum and it was dated "1904'ish"..no idea where that date came from though.

Dated advertisements and catalogs seem to be the most accurate way to put a date to old razors.
Here is an ad from 1909 for a Junior with the "new bar" (since the Junior Bar came out in 1906/07, did the bar design change in 1909???)
Its too bad they didnt show the back of the razor



Here is one of my Junior Bars that is quite similar to the above ad, I would date it 1907-09









And here is a Junior without a bar...notice it has the same patent date








Sorry I wasnt much help, hopefully someone has more information
Kevin

 

[Henrik]

Well, looking at Waits again (can't see how to post it) the case you show with "Junior" in noncursive (as opposed to his picture of a 1908 Junior in cursive, it might then be the 1911 as he labels it. But on that there's no mention of the wooden handle

Good information. I missed that detail on the box (cursive vs noncursive).

Pinpointing a date on these old lather catchers can be tough, and yours does not seem to be an exception.

I also looked at Waits, and could not come up with a definite date for your razor. (You can download Waits for a reasonable price)
It almost appears that the head on yours is early (1906), the handle looks like its from 1907-09, yet the case graphics looks like its from 1911

I did see an identical one to yours on another forum and it was dated "1904'ish"..no idea where that date came from though.

Dated advertisements and catalogs seem to be the most accurate way to put a date to old razors.

Kevin

You contributed with good information Kevin. I guess it´s a tough one to nail down the dates to these wonders. As for the handles my guess is that they used both wooden and metal handles over they years. A question back to you:
- That junior you got without a bar just got to have the most fantastic gotic scrolls on to it I think. How does it shave compared to a junior with a bar?

Just for the record- here is a 1908 ad I shamelessly stole from another thread in another forum. Again too bad they did not show the other side of the razor. So yes I suppose you are right about the age of your set. Again- many thanks for your insights here..!


Lastly- I won an other interesting jr that I expect will arrive in the coming days. The case looks like a mismatch. Here are the e-bay pics. Will post some nicer pics when it arrives in a couple of days.

 

[kcb5150]

One of these days I'm going to get one of those Gem Junior Bars with the wooden handle...

 

[Henrik]

I guess this junior is not saying much.. However pay a notice to the boxe´s details on this 1907 ad I found. Just for a reference to other junior boys out there. And I am positive they are not plenty of you out there...?

View attachment 370558

 

[Sled Dog]

Lastly- I won an other interesting jr that I expect will arrive in the coming days. The case looks like a mismatch. Here are the e-bay pics. Will post some nicer pics when it arrives in a couple of days.
View attachment 370408View attachment 370409

I dont know if thats a mismatched case or not...if it is, then mine is too

 

[MacDaddy]

Sorry folks, somehow I missed this thread earlier. The GJB is my all-time favorite SE.

The frame you've got there, Henrik, is one of the later styles that's generally referred to as a "1910." It would have been the style used in the Gem Junior Damaskeene set like this one:

The "Junior" name, as far as I've been able to find goes back to at least 1906, with the bar-less frame that Sled Dog posted above. "The Bar" appears to have been added at the end of 1907, and they carried on with that style (not counting the change in the inscription on the back) all the way through 1912, at least. Here's a full-page ad from the December 1907 issue of Technical World Magazine touting the virtues of the new bar:



In your particular case, Henrik, I would guess that you're probably looking at something like the 1910-1912 range, with a higher likelihood of being earlier in that range than later. Here is an ad from Pearson's Magazine from sometime in the first half of 1910, and although the set that's pictured is a slightly different one than yours you can see the same style lettering on the ribbon in the lid:

 

[garyg]

Nice info, I think we sometimes tend to forget that these razors from the birthyears of my grandfather may have migrated cases over time .. but the ad copy freezes them in place

 

[Henrik]

I just wondered where you would be Porter Extraordinary. And the link that you provided- it has gone me by completely. As for the ads you posted here- can´t read them- must be because of copyrights US vs rest of the world.

Anyway- yesterday I bought the e-version of Waits. Best spent money yet. Can´t believe why I have waited to buy for so long. Might be that I like to hold a physical copy of something. (For you fellows that yet don´t have Waits- I strongly recommend it).

Questions:
1. I wonder why my razor, without the lovely scroll work, that was put out around 1910 or so, did not have the "Bar" in the name- just GEM Junior. I mean the bar was still there. I guess that question is going to be left without answers.

2. The patents 1900/1900 seems odd. I might be wrong here but they both seem to refer to the older versions of lather catcher heads- not the GEM jrs. Thoughts?

3. Is there a common consensus around here that GEM used both wooden handles and different versions of metal handles over the ten years (or so) time span?

4. According to Waits the juniors were offered at a low price and also were designed to be fitted with thinner blades (to compete with Gillette). So why was a stropper still tucked in into those wooden cases?

Lastly- I am madly fond of this razor (fitted with my Star handle). The shaves have been fantastic so far. I am usually fond of highly aggressive razors that you need to have caution to use- but this razor is something else. BBS results without being cautious- how can that be(?) Very similar to my pre 1919 Damaskeene. I will place this razor very next to my beloved 1914 (and my wife of course).

 

[MacDaddy]

I just wondered where you would be Porter Extraordinary. And the link that you provided- it has gone me by completely. As for the ads you posted here- can´t read them- must be because of copyrights US vs rest of the world.

It's pretty silly on Google's part as both ads would be clearly in the public domain at this point. I've pulled them down for you and am reposting them directly here:

Technical World Magazine, December 1907


Pearson's Magazine, June 1910

1. I wonder why my razor, without the lovely scroll work, that was put out around 1910 or so, did not have the "Bar" in the name- just GEM Junior. I mean the bar was still there. I guess that question is going to be left without answers.

My own guess would be that initially they wanted it to differentiate the new model from the old one -- to call extra attention to the new feature -- but that after a little while it was no longer necessary since it was really the only "Gem Junior" left around.

2. The patents 1900/1900 seems odd. I might be wrong here but they both seem to refer to the older versions of lather catcher heads- not the GEM jrs. Thoughts?

It does seem a little strange that they wouldn't have filed for separate protection on the bar design, at least, but really since it's the particular features of the razor that are patented any razor that they made with those features during the period that the patents were valid could claim protection.

Here are the two patents in question. Let me know if you have any trouble getting to these, too, and I can link you to a European repository that shouldn't have any restrictions for you.

• US657010 - inventor August Scheuber; filed Dec 29, 1899; issued Aug 28, 1900
• US686143 - inventor August Scheuber; filed Jun 6, 1901; issued Nov 5, 1901

3. Is there a common consensus around here that GEM used both wooden handles and different versions of metal handles over the ten years (or so) time span?

From what I've seen in the advertising record, I'd say that's a pretty safe bet.

4. According to Waits the juniors were offered at a low price and also were designed to be fitted with thinner blades (to compete with Gillette). So why was a stropper still tucked in into those wooden cases?

The carbon steel blades that they used would have still benefited from stropping to extend their lives. Where Gillette's marketing took the approach that stopping was an evil to be avoided, the various SE brands continued to embrace it -- likely to appeal to those with a more frugal mindset.

Lastly- I am madly fond of this razor (fitted with my Star handle). The shaves have been fantastic so far. I am usually fond of highly aggressive razors that you need to have caution to use- but this razor is something else. BBS results without being cautious- how can that be(?) Very similar to my pre 1919 Damaskeene. I will place this razor very next to my beloved 1914 (and my wife of course).[/QUOTE]

I know exactly what you mean. I think the smoothness comes from the very shallow blade angle that you can achieve using just the bar as a guide and ignoring the guard altogether. But I've noticed the exact same thing as you -- that I can almost whip the thing around my face willy-nilly with absolutely no repercussion. An absolutely great razor.

 

[Sled Dog]

Thanks for re-posting the ads, I can never see your links either. (Thought it was my computer or browser or something on my end)
Agree that the Junior Bar is one of the best razors made!

 

[Henrik]

My second junior came today. I am thrilled to say the least. A piece of industrial art- still usable for everyday shaves after all these years. I find that very appealing. The set looks pretty much like Sled Dog´s but differs slightly (but that could be an illusion). I bet it´s hard to nail the age of this set so a settlement to 1907 would be appropriate-no?

The bar on my razor- including the two side pieces that is it´s attached to the hood is brass all the way- not nickel plated. A bit odd or is it common? Could be a worn off of course.
Thanks Porter for your answers- very through as always AND for posting your ads. Much appreciated