Gel, bleached, treated vs untreated, natural badger brushes

[Themaverickmonk]

Hi,

I have a couple of badgers which include the treated, gelled, bleached ones as well as the untreated ones. I have come to realize that I love the natural untreated ones, specially the silvertips / supers. As I understand, most of the Chinese brush manufacturers are going big on the treated scene (Oumo, Boti (?)). Although they feel nice on the face, somehow they feel strange, as if the brushes have no soul. I also dont think that Yaqi bleaches its brushes - I have a couple of them and I cant physically see any signs of treatment.

Can the group members suggest some really good, untreated silvertips and supers?

 

[SharpieB]

I really dislike gelled tips. I have owned very expensive gelled badger brushes and ended up selling them all. I just hate the slimy feel.

I would recommend Simpson, Zenith, Thater, ShaveMac and Semogue SOC badger brushes. I own multiple brushes from all of them and none are gelled.

 

[Themaverickmonk]

I really dislike gelled tips. I have owned very expensive gelled badger brushes and ended up selling them all. I just hate the slimy feel.

I would recommend Simpson, Zenith, Thater, ShaveMac and Semogue SOC badger brushes. I own multiple brushes from all of them and none are gelled.

I have the Zenith which I absolutely enjoy. Unfortunately Simpsons/Shavemacs become too costly with the shipping and customs to India. Semogue I love their boars and have all of them . I only wish they made a 26mm badger - waiting for that to be offered from Semogue!

 

[EclipseRedRing]

I have the Zenith which I absolutely enjoy. Unfortunately Simpsons/Shavemacs become too costly with the shipping and customs to India. Semogue I love their boars and have all of them . I only wish they made a 26mm badger - waiting for that to be offered from Semogue!

You might consider this from Semogue:

Semogue Barbear Português 2023

Dear all! It is with great pleasure that I present to you the Semogue Barbear Português Limited Edition 2023 shaving brush. It's a robust 26mm brush (measuring close to 27mm), made of Selected Silvertip badger hair and Loft approximately 52mm. The design was inspired by an old Semogue model...

www.badgerandblade.com

 

[Themaverickmonk]

You might consider this from Semogue:

Semogue Barbear Português 2023

Dear all! It is with great pleasure that I present to you the Semogue Barbear Português Limited Edition 2023 shaving brush. It's a robust 26mm brush (measuring close to 27mm), made of Selected Silvertip badger hair and Loft approximately 52mm. The design was inspired by an old Semogue model...

www.badgerandblade.com

I saw this one. Its quite steeply priced at Eur 140

 

[BigJ]

I also appreciate untreated badger brushes. My favorites come from Simpsons, Shavemac and Rudy Vey!!

Unfortunately, I have limited ability to help with information on shipping or customs duties.

 

[Mr. Shavington]

Who knows what is done to the badger hairs used in different brushes?

Heavily gelled knots are much less common these days and it was a short-lived fad. They are easy to identify. They feel slimy and false.

There are knots with more lightly treated badger hair still reasonably common in artisan brushes - I identify this from the crusty feel of the hair tips after they dry, but these brushes are not slimy and the light treatment seems to give more softness to the tips and more uniformity.

And there are a lot of brushes which have suspiciously white or yellow tips that don’t look natural to me, but they don’t get crusty when the brush dries and they feel pretty natural. What are these? Are they treated for purely aesthetic purposes or are the tips also artificially softened in the process?

Then there are brushes that seem to be entirely natural. They don’t look as pretty or as uniform unless the brush maker really spends a lot of time selecting the hairs - which I’m sure is a vanishingly rare exercise. How do they make these tips soft? Are they selecting hair that has fine tips, and is just variable in colour and the width of the black stripe?

I’m guessing it’s akin to doping in sport. Initially we saw ridiculously muscled athletes who used steroids. Now I presume most athletes still dope but the drugs have evolved and the effects are more subtle now.

Is thick, backboney two-band hair ever really soft-tipped without some chemical treatment? What is two-band hair really, and where on the badger does it come from? Is it black hair with bleached ends or is it silvertip neck hair that is thicker with a wider black stripe, or some other hair from a different part of the badger?

Personally, while I think some of these brush knots look beautiful, I’ve moved over time to favour brushes that look like real, untreated badger hair, rather than seeking even black and white stripes. I like the feel and performance better and they are also much less expensive. I think a part of me also wants to believe that the underlying hair in my brushes is of high quality, rather than less good hair that is made better by articial means.

 

[Journeyman]

I agree with @Mr. Shavington that likely many of the 2-band badger knots have been treated to some extent. When I got into wet shaving 10 years ago, 2-band knots seemed more rare, and then they seemed to pop up everywhere. I'm not sure if they weren't treated prior to the 2-band proliferation, or if they always were. They can seem to have a certain sameness in feel.

I do own several 2-band brushes of the many brushes I own. Ultimately it comes down to me if I enjoy the experience of face lathering with a brush.

I've had one 2-band brush with truly gelled tips, and it was slimy for the first handful of shaves. Then that went away, and I was left with a brush with very soft tips. I didn't end up keeping it, but I suspect the overly treated tips may have affected the knot's longevity in the long term.

For anyone seeking a 2-band brush that I believe is not treated, then I would recommend Shavemac's D01 2-band knot for this specific quality. However, it's not like any hair type I have ever owned. It has maximum backbone, and it can have a touch of scritch. It took 40+ shaves for me to get it to a place where I really enjoy it. Search info on it on B&B, and you'll find plenty of opinions both ways on people who like it or not. Mine is 28mm x 54mm, and it's a beast.

 

[ChiefBroom]

To the best of my understanding and belief (which I've had confirmed repeatedly) no badger hair of the type used to make what are commonly referred to as 2-band knots that is completely untreated. It's a matter of degree. Natural badger hair is typically hydrophobic. The best 2-band knots are relatively hydrophilic, which is a good thing up to a point. But excessively processed hair gets what would call "mushy" and holds water so tightly it impairs function.

I'm completely open to being proven wrong. But that would require showing authentic photos of an unprocessed pelt with hair corresponding in length, color, and source location (area on the pelt) to the hair used in 2-band knot production.

 

[tanvir]

To the best of my understanding and belief (which I've had confirmed repeatedly) no badger hair of the type used to make what are commonly referred to as 2-band knots that is completely untreated. It's a matter of degree. Natural badger hair is typically hydrophobic. The best 2-band knots are relatively hydrophilic, which is a good thing up to a point. But excessively processed hair gets what would call "mushy" and holds water so tightly it impairs function.

I'm completely open to being proven wrong. But that would require showing authentic photos of an unprocessed pelt with hair corresponding in length, color, and source location (area on the pelt) to the hair used in 2-band knot production.

I agree. I got my Saponificio Varesino 2.0 Turtle Shell brush few weeks ago. Until this time, I only had experience with Kent Silvertip, Simpsons Super badger, and Simpsons Best badger. I could not understand why the tips became so hard after drying until I began looking around. After 10-15 shaves, gel like/slimy tips are better but the the tips still getting stiff after drying.

I have read that Saponificio Varesino does not Gel their brushes. My brush is than the exception.

 

[Cannon Cocker]

I agree. I got my Saponificio Varesino 2.0 Turtle Shell brush few weeks ago. Until this time, I only had experience with Kent Silvertip, Simpsons Super badger, and Simpsons Best badger. I could not understand why the tips became so hard after drying until I began looking around. After 10-15 shaves, gel like/slimy tips are better but the the tips still getting stiff after drying.

I have read that Saponificio Varesino does not Gel their brushes. My brush is than the exception.

I also have a SV 2.0 in ebony wood that I’ve had for 2 or 3 years. It shows no signs of gel tips (crunchy dry tips, hooked tips, slimy tips)or the like. I have had brushes with gel tips with the above tips, and did not like them at all. If as ChiefBroom believes all 2 band knots are treated, my SV and my 4 Shavemac 2 band brushes show no signs of treatment.

 

[Rudy Vey]

I also have a SV 2.0 in ebony wood that I’ve had for 2 or 3 years. It shows no signs of gel tips (crunchy dry tips, hooked tips, slimy tips)or the like. I have had brushes with gel tips with the above tips, and did not like them at all. If as ChiefBroom believes all 2 band knots are treated, my SV and my 4 Shavemac 2 band brushes show no signs of treatment.

Same as my experience, my SV is natural and so are my many Shavemac two-band silvertips. Over years they will eventually show a bit of the hooking and the drying together of hairs, but in my Favorite brush this took probably 4 years, and it is a very much used brush. My Mozingo also does not show any signs of treatment as well. Gelling, crusty drying, hair sticking in clumps, slimy and extreme soft, pillowy tips.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

As I understand, most of the Chinese brush manufacturers are going big on the treated scene (Oumo, Boti (?)).

Oumo says their Emperor knot is not gelled. It's made of relatively long silvertip that's packed densely and set low for lots of backbone. It's also not cheap. I have one and it does seem to have a very natural tip feel which I prefer. I'm more ambivalent about the backbone...I don't mind a little more flop in a knot. But it is very nice and different from any of my other brushes.

I assume like others have said, that virtually all two bands are treated in some way, even if they're not obviously hooked and crunchy when dry.