Frank Shaving - I should have known better than to get involved .

[GDCarrington]

Back in August 2011 I made a review of Frank Shaving Synthetic brush and gave it a very good review based on level of perceived quality versus price (bang to buck). A copy of that review can be found here.

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...-TGN-Synthetic-Brush-Reviews?highlight=Franks

Many other people purchased that brush and was pleased. Franks Shaving seem to take off and begin to run the gambit of types and designs of brushes with various types of handles, grades of badger hair, etc. However, over time, it appeared that quality controls began to slip and issues such as knots that are crooked and wrong lofts by a wild amount of error. The owner stated that those issue were being solved. Over time we began to see thread after thread of issues and point counter point between the Frank champions and the Frank detractors. Here are some of the threads on this subject.

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/292696-Frank-Shaving-Brushes-Really

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...ushes-opinions?highlight=franks+shaving+brush

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...ank-Shaving-Brushes?highlight=Chinese+brushes

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/188872-Views-on-Frank-Shaving-Brushes?highlight=

After reading all of this I thought that I would stay out of the fray. Enough evidence of shoddy tolerances in assembly, and the run around given to some members that I have known on the forum for being honest and candid with their opinion, caused me to pass on many opportunities. Unfortunately, there was a comparison of a new Frank Shaving Custom Synthetic that was being discussed on this thread.

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/308253-Finally-a-Synthetic-Winner!

I thought that it would be good to compare this one not only against the H.I.S. Synthetic with the 28 mm knot 60mm effective loft as shown here ...

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/287195-H-I-S-Synthetic-Brush?highlight=

... but also against the H.I.S. I chopped down to 54 mm effective loft as shown on these thread.

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...H-I-S-synthetic-brush-down-to-size?highlight=

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/309693-The-quot-Reduced-H-I-S?highlight=

I wanted a 28mm/54mm to see compare directly to the modified H.I.S. I do not want to use opinion or speculation on what was communicated between Frank Shaving and myself. So here is the order and the transaction mails. The email addresses are the only things that have been redacted from these messages.

---

Message 1:
From: gary
To: iantang
Subject: gary has sent a message
Sent Date: Aug-30-12 04:08:02 PDT

Dear iantang,
Hello Ian,
I would like to order a Synthetic 28mm/54mm brush like in the article below in Faux Ivory instead of the black.

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/308253-Finally-a-Synthetic-Winner!

Thanks, I look forward to your reply.
- gary

---

Message 2:
To: gary
From: iantang
Sent: Aug-30-12 06:31 PM

Dear gary,
Hi,
Thanks for enquiry!
It is no problem,I can change a faux ivory handle instead of the black one. The price is USD 19.99 plus shipping fee USD 6.99.But for the custom brush,
I need full payment in advance and it will cost about one week to make it. Could you accept it?

Thanks/Ian
- iantang

---

Message 3:
From: gary
To: iantang

Subject: Re: gary has sent a message
Sent Date: Aug-30-12 18:56:41 PDT

Dear iantang
Ian,
No problem with any of those conditions. Send me an invoice to gary@***.*** BTW: Are you thinking about supplying the knot as a stand alone item for sale?

Thanks,
Gary

---

Message 4:
To: gary
From: iantang
Sent: Aug-30-12 07:07 PM

Dear gary,
Hi,Gary,
Thanks!I just sent a Paypal invoice to you.
I mainly sale shaving brush only.But sometimes,if client needs hair knot,I can sale as well. But it is not my regular biz,so I do not list them onto my store.

Thanks/Ian-
iantang

---

Message 5:
From: gary
To: iantang
Subject: Re: gary has sent a message
Sent Date: Aug-30-12 19:25:55 PDT

Dear iantang,
Ian, Payment is done. I look forward to receiving the brush.

Thanks,
Gary

---

Message 6:
To: gary
From: iantang
Sent: Aug-30-12 07:42 PM

Dear gary,
Thanks,Gary,
I received it.Will arrange producing and dispatch it out asap.
Thanks/Ian
- iantang

---

​

I figured if Ian was swamped it and would take more than one week to get the brush finished.
I waited another week before asking about a status. So about two weeks pass by then...

---

Message 7:
From: gary
To: iantang
Subject: gary has sent a message
Sent Date: Sep-13-12 17:06:44 PDT

Dear iantang19821024,
Ian,What is the status of this brush? Is it still being built or has it already shipped?
Thanks,
Gary

---

Message 8:
To: gary
From: iantang19821024
Sent: Sep-13-12 06:05 PM

Dear gary
Hi,Gary,The hair knot has been finished. But it is wet here these two days and I am waiting for glue dry now. I can ship it out next Mon I think.

Thanks/Ian
- iantang

---

​

Now we turn to the shipment notes from U.S. Postal Service records to see what happened with shipping.

Acceptance September 19, 2012, 1:06 pm CHINA PEOPLES REP
Processed Through Sort Facility September 24, 2012, 8:05 pm SHANGHAI, CHINA PEOPLES REP
Processed Through Sort Facility September 30, 2012, 1:08 am ISC LOS ANGELES CA (USPS)
Depart USPS Sort Facility October 02, 2012 SANTA CLARITA, CA 91383
Depart USPS Sort Facility October 03, 2012 DALLAS, TX 75398
Delivered October 04, 2012, 12:59 pm (To my mail box)
​

**Note that the day it was mailed was Wednesday 19 September 2012. The Next Monday that Ian stated in his last email would have been 17 September 2012. **

---

So I was all ready to get started and I open up the package on 4 October and here was what I found.

So the first thing I did was send Ian and email at his mail address that he has as business listing in Paypal. Here is that message.

---

Message 9:
From: Gary
Sent: 10/04/12 06:14 PM
To: iantang
Subject: Shaving Brush

Hello Ian,

The shaving brush has arrived except that instead of the 28mm/54mm I requested, it is a 28mm/59mm. The loft was not made according to what I had specified. It is 5 mm longer than ordered.

I am measuring with a digital caliper and it reads 59.28mm. See the image below.

This was a custom brush that is incorrectly made. What will you do concering a resolution to this problem?

Regards,
Gary D. Carrington

---

​

No response was given and this was send again via his e-Bay channel. No response again. So I sent an additional message.

---

Message 10:

To: iantang
From: gary
Sent: Oct-05-12 04:13 PM
Dear iantang,
Ian,
When I received a custom brush I found that it was not made to my order. I requested a 28 mm / 54 mm. You sent a 28 mm / 59 mm. That is 5 mm longer than what I ordered and that is not acceptable.
I have sent an email to iantang***@**** with the brush laid out and measured, but as of this time I have received no response to that email.
I custom ordered a brush and I am not happy to wait a very long time and receive something that is made incorrectly. That is unacceptable.
I am going to clearly ask, what will you do to resolve this problem?
I will not pay any more money to resolve this issue whether it be in purchasing a new product, shipping, or in returning defective merchandise. This is your error and it is your responsibility to correct it.

If I do not receive a satisfactory response quickly, I will have to take steps to remedy this and that will not be the best method for all concerned.
Regards,
Gary D. Carrington

---

​

As of the time of this posting, I have not received any response from Mr. Tang. Now when I placed the order, it was communication on the very same day as has been accounted for in the prior emails. So it appears that from my experience he is quick to receive sales but slow to resolve issues.

The bottom line is that even though this is an inexpensive brush, it should be made correctly. If it is incorrectly made then it should be made right for the customer with as small of an amount of inconvenience as possible. The cost of the brush should not be the issue in terms of how the custom order is managed. If you see in the message chain there were a number of missed commitments from the time it took to make the brush, from the shipping date, to the correct loft size and as a bonus a stand that serves no use with the brush that it was shipped with. As to Ian's statement on the issue of humidity and glue, it means that he is either making the brushes outside or in a non-climate controlled building. Neither one bodes well for the consumer in my viewpoint, if that is really why the delay occurred. Since that is all I have to go by, then I will leave off speculating on that issue.

In addition one may say that a person that builds their own or restores old brushes will have more of a critical nature over this matter. To that I would say that I would be guilty of that charge, but it also provides me with a working knowledge to understand if there is a true problem or just an issue of perspective. Since the calipers are accurate, there is no issue of perspective on the fact that this is an incorrectly made custom brush.

Now as to the steps to remedy, this is the only one that I will use. This is an inexpensive brush and trying to deal with Ian is not an effective measure based on all the B&B posts that are referenced in this thread when something goes wrong. What I will say is that I will not be doing any more business with Frank Shaving. I also cannot in good conscience provide any more suggestions to individuals to consider their products because it seems that there is a more than normal probability that there will be an issue and that any modicum of real customer service would be lacking when an item is incorrectly made.

Now I bought this somewhat against my better judgment, because of the potential for comparison against a 54 mm lofted H.I.S. I did not succumb anyone's “enabling” or “BAD” because I was not looking for another brush. I have plenty of my own both in terms of purchased, self made customs, etc. So at this point it appears that I will no longer be interested performing any comparison between the two synthetics. As to the brush, the knot may appear in some other fashion, or it may just be left on the shelf since any more comparisons and/or revisions would involve providing more free advertising to Frank Shaving.

If you have had good results with Frank Shaving then that is wonderful and I am glad that you have received the brush you desired. Enjoy them in good health and happiness. If you have not had good results, then it appears I have now fully joined your ranks.

I am sorry for the long read, but I did not want to have this based on vague accusations. I wanted this to be based on facts.

 

[German]

There is a reason they are cheap...

 

[SliceOfLife]

I hope you get it sorted out. The stand could easily be ground open a bit to fit the brush (I wouldn't worry too much about it, they cost $1-3), but it's a shame the loft on the brush was so far off.

 

[shaverjoe]

There is a reason they are cheap...

+1

 

[AABCDS]

That's unfortunate, Gary. I hope that you either get your money back or get the brush that you specified and a brush stand that fits it.

On a side note, I've never purchased a Frank's Shaving brush and have never been interested in purchasing one, especially after this thread.

 

[GDCarrington]

I hope you get it sorted out. The stand could easily be ground open a bit to fit the brush (I wouldn't worry too much about it, they cost $1-3), but it's a shame the loft on the brush was so far off.

The stand was what made me laugh about the whole thing. I envision a checklist with a callout like this.

28 mm knot brush ... check!

Stand that only allows 23 mm knot brush matched to use with this 28 mm brush... check!

O.K. Ship it!

 

[beginish]

The stand was what made me laugh about the whole thing. I envision a checklist with a callout like this.

28 mm knot brush ... check!

Stand that only allows 23 mm knot brush matched to use with this 28 mm brush... check!

O.K. Ship it!

Somehow, I don't think there are any checklists.

 

[GDCarrington]

Somehow, I don't think there are any checklists.

That is what keeps me laughing! With a little growl thrown in for good measure!

 

[Samjax]

Sorry to hear about the issues in getting a decent brush from Ian. Thankfully, things worked out on this end.

Incidentally, I have the same reservations about Parker razors - we had to go through 12 of them to finally find two that passed quality control. Once we found the "right" ones - it worked out great. Unfortunately, there's no way to personally oversee the QC at Frank Shaving - although one would think that Ian would have a very real interest in getting that handled.

It has been interesting to read the various posts regarding the FS Synthetic - I'm fairly confident that many of the brushes being talked about are not at all the same brush I have in my possession.

 

[wagstaff]

I ordered one based on the Samjax thread you cite. I also laughed at the stand being too small (but I didn't specify a stand, nor did Ian, so I thought that was a laughable bonus -- it fits another brush I had wihtout a stand. Still... where can I get a $1-$3 stand?? Even if I have to file it open wider!). I took the loft on faith. No calipers. I like it more than my Omega synthetic for various reasons, but I wasn't in any way super precise about the custom order aspect. This is a damn shame.

 

[California Cajun]

I think outfits like this figure that for the price people will live with whatever they get. I got a razor and brush stand that easily held a heavy Merkur 34C. About a year or so later I ordered another one and without the brush, the stand will fall over if the razor is put on the hook. I finally glued it to a coaster so it could do the job. What they offer is subject to change, and that's the reason they can sell things so cheap.

For brushes, I either get a vintage brush and replace the knot or buy one from one of our hobbyists. I have more confidence in these brushes and the handles are real eye candy.

 

[GDCarrington]

Sorry to hear about the issues in getting a decent brush from Ian. Thankfully, things worked out on this end.

Incidentally, I have the same reservations about Parker razors - we had to go through 12 of them to finally find two that passed quality control. Once we found the "right" ones - it worked out great. Unfortunately, there's no way to personally oversee the QC at Frank Shaving - although one would think that Ian would have a very real interest in getting that handled.

It has been interesting to read the various posts regarding the FS Synthetic - I'm fairly confident that many of the brushes being talked about are not at all the same brush I have in my possession.

I have had issues with Parker as well on the Synthetic Brush side.

From some of the other threads it seems that if things get out of hand on the demand side many the brushes go back to a 58 - 62 mm loft regardless of what the e-Bay ad stated or as in my case the custom sizing.

Well I guess I now have the "Bride of H.I.S." That was not quite what I had in mind when I custom ordered this brush.

 

[GDCarrington]

I think outfits like this figure that for the price people will live with whatever they get. I got a razor and brush stand that easily held a heavy Merkur 34C. About a year or so later I ordered another one and without the brush, the stand will fall over if the razor is put on the hook. I finally glued it to a coaster so it could do the job. What they offer is subject to change, and that's the reason they can sell things so cheap.

For brushes, I either get a vintage brush and replace the knot or buy one from one of our hobbyists. I have more confidence in these brushes and the handles are real eye candy.

My problem is that I have done too many of my own customs and restores. When I got it I knew the loft was too long without measuring, then the measurement proved it.

 

[Scritchnscrub]

... The bottom line is that...this is an inexpensive brush...

This.

 

[drlvegas]

Sorry to hear about this, he did a nice job on mine--a 23mm faux bone.

I'm thinking about attempting my first restore--any idea of a source for the 28mm sythetic? The only synths I can find are at TGN in 23mm.

Thanks

 

[Agravic]

Gary, I am sorry to hear of your misadventure, and understand the frustration you are experiencing. Thankfully, in this case it did not involve a high-ticket item or your ire would have been stronger!

Also, I need to get myself some digital calipers! Cannot seem to reign AD in ... despite best efforts ...

 

[merkur59]

There is a reason they are cheap...

Whippeddog silvertips are cheaper than FS yet Larry stands by his products.

 

[merkur59]

I ordered one based on the Samjax thread you cite. I also laughed at the stand being too small (but I didn't specify a stand, nor did Ian, so I thought that was a laughable bonus -- it fits another brush I had wihtout a stand. Still... where can I get a $1-$3 stand?? Even if I have to file it open wider!). I took the loft on faith. No calipers. I like it more than my Omega synthetic for various reasons, but I wasn't in any way super precise about the custom order aspect. This is a damn shame.

I have one FS stand - can't fit my 24mm Whippeddog silvertip into it...

In all honesty, I like my one and only 23mm knot FS Finest. Definately not liking the service support.

 

[cb91710]

Whippeddog silvertips are cheaper than FS yet Larry stands by his products.

Larry is also more of a hobbyist seller, doing it because it's something he loves.
I can't imagine that he's making any money at all on his brushes.

That said, I'm happy with my Frank's turnback silvertip travel brush... but it is a travel-only brush. I've used it maybe 10 times, and in the rest of my entire life, it might see as much use as my Rudy Vey sees in a year.
It works, it's cheap, and if it goes missing, I'm out $35 and can pick up a VDH as a temporary replacement at any drug store.

Would I order a custom brush from Frank's? No... not any more than I'd order a custom from VDH through my local Walgreens.

 

[Loric]

...OK... its aside from the point, but how is the brush with the taller loft? Whats it like?

My Samjax got lost in the mail for a month, and Ian sent me a refund after it had been lost for a couple weeks. When it showed up I paid him for it again. Thats really my only experience with him. So there was a bit of trouble, but I'd like to think we both did the right thing.