For the Honemeister's out there . . question x2

[Coti]

Howdy howdy all,
I recently purchased a second Edelweiss Str8 that was only factory sharpened to fill my RaD that thanks to you all here I was not affected with until I started reading this board . I bought this from a site the didnt offer honeing, but didnt matter to me as I can maintain my razors already in use with pretty good results. ( I am not a honemeister and I'm sure my edges are not nearly as good as others, but I can shave comfortably with them )
However, this razor I noticed was slightly warped at the toe when I laid it across my coti for a touchup.

Now the first question.

If I was to set the bevel on this razor would I just need to use rolling X strokes or force the blade down on the stone for bevel setting? I guess what I want to ask is that if the edge is not flat, and I had to use a bit of force to keep the toe on the stone for bevel setting, how would I ever get the razor sharp when using less pressure at post bevel setting work? I hope this makes sense.

One other question please.

If you had a str8 with a very wide bevel and wanted to narrow it down how would you suggest doing this? A long time friend that I grew up with since a kid has started an interest in Str8 shaving and has an old razor purchased with a wide bevel. He was asking me how to narrow the bevel but I actually have no idea since I have no experience in this. I am only able to keep my blades shave ready and that's about it. I have no experience in restoration and fixing bad blade edges that have been neglected or damaged. I thought I would ask for him and possibly provide some info.

 

[MilkyLee]

Someone else with more experience than me might chime in, but the only way I know how to narrow the bevel is using tape on the spine and that would only help a little.

 

[Gamma]

I'm not a honemeister.

Roll the stroke - don't use localized pressure to force the edge down; it'll wind up twisting the steel down the line.
Or - use a thinner hone.

Depending on how 'off' the toe is, you may be able to get it where you want it with heel leading strokes on a coarse stone.

You can tape the spine on the razor with the wide bevel, but - you may need a lot of tape to correct the situation.
I've done 3 layers - and it gets wonky at that pointl; too much 'squish' to deal with.
Personally - I'd leave the bevel alone unless it's super thick or the angle is too steep to support the edge.
Honing a new thinner or more obtuse angled bevel is a alot of work. You are not going to want to do that on a Coti.

 

[smalltank]

Answer for question 1....use black electrical tape for the spine..helps not for honewear to not showup (aesthetic look)...when making the bevel force IS required when on your 800 or 1k grit stone....use firm pressure for the first 20 laps...ease up a bit every 20 laps after that til very light strokes..should cut armhair effortlessly....no tug or pull should be felt

Answer for question 2....wider and shorter edges are relative to each blades grind and type...full hollow has less wide of an edge and much lighter vs a full wedge grind which has a wider edge and is heavier..my $.02....

 

[Coti]

Thanks all for the replies all. I'm gonna give it a shot with the warped blade.

 

[Krodor]

Coti's lapped flat, right? Just verifying the razor is warped and not the hone.

 

[Coti]

Yes, the coti is lapped flat. I regularly maintain two other razors, another edelweiss and a wacker old sheffield that I have not noticed the warpness of the blade. I was unpleasantly surprised when it arrived this way.

 

[professorchaos]

Honemeister? What's a honemeister? I thought it was some kind of pejorative.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Your warped blade can be honed as is using a rolling x. The problem is if you rock too far up you make the problem worse over time. The advantage is you can use the entire blade for shaving. You can also hone the edge straight but this takes years. Basically you simply hone straight as if the blade were straight. The part that does contact the hone eventually wears to the level of the part that doesn't now contact the hone. The sharp edge gets longer and longer until you have a full length edge. This is practical when you only have a half inch or less of the toe not hitting the hone.

By wide bevel do you mean a wide flat strip alongside the edge, or a large bevel angle? A beval angle that is too obtuse can only be corrected by thinning the spine. A wide bevel flat is not a problem. Correcting it by taping only fixes it temporarily and prevents the spine from wearing as it should. You could I suppose sand the blade thinner behind the edge but I see no real need. The razor will still shave just fine. Honing can take a little longer due to the greater volume of steel removed but no big deal. If you have a hard time getting it sharp you can make a compound bevel but normally I do not recommend it. To do that hone normally but finish with a dozen laps with the spine taped. The idea is to make the secondary bevel flat very narrow. Overall blade geometry is not appreciably changed even over many years I think. This is how I hone wedges.

 

[global_dev]

Learn to love a bevel, wide or narrow!!! It will make life so much fuller!

 

[Doc226]

Learn to love a bevel, wide or narrow!!! It will make life so much fuller!

Agree 100%, a nice even bevel is nice but sometimes because of previous honing, geometry, spine, etc, etc it can't be achieved

 

[casus4844]

Pictures please!! I'd like to see this problemn also if I run into it.

 

[Coti]

Pictures please!! I'd like to see this problemn also if I run into it.

The razor with the wide bevel I do not own. I was asked what to do to narrow the width of the bevel so sorry no pics of this.

 

[Coti]

Learn to love a bevel, wide or narrow!!! It will make life so much fuller!

That's an interesting way to put it Global. You even managed to fit the word "fuller" in the reply. i.e., full hollow, half hollow etc. etc. You sir are now a word meister

 

[global_dev]

Making a wide bevel narrow would essentially lead to a larger bevel angle and a smaller width razor. I typically don't want either of those unless the steel can't handle the original angle.

 

[Gamma]

Making a wide bevel narrow would essentially lead to a larger bevel angle and a smaller width razor. I typically don't want either of those unless the steel can't handle the original angle.

This

 

[buca3152]

Warped spines get the royal 325 600 1200 dmt treatment for me. I had a new dovo like that. My thinking is that once you remove metal to correct the blade geometry, you will never have to do it again. You can get narrow hones, or rolling x strokes. I just bite the bullet and remove the metal to Set the bevel. Obviously its your razor and call.

 

[Doc226]

Here is a hell of a bevel

 

[global_dev]

Warped spines get the royal 325 600 1200 dmt treatment for me. I had a new dovo like that. My thinking is that once you remove metal to correct the blade geometry, you will never have to do it again. You can get narrow hones, or rolling x strokes. I just bite the bullet and remove the metal to Set the bevel. Obviously its your razor and call.

I just tried this today on the dmt c and honestl,y it was painful. I couldn't get t done, switched to "narrow" hones and was done right quick. It'll get to that geometry eventually...

 

[Danricgro]

I don't worry at all if the bevel isn't even all across the blade as long as the edge is "even" all across the blade. That's the part you shave with.