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Flip or Fix up A&N C S L with Ivory Scales?

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DominoM

I got this thinking it was a good candidate for practicing cleaning up and rescaling, but when it arrived I realized the scales are ivory. Is it worth reselling as is (to fund other purchases for fixing up) or should I stick with my original plan and replace the scales?

All I've been able to find out about it is that it's an Army & Navy Co-operative Society Ltd razor, which dates it somewhere between 1871 & 1934.

$ANCSL.jpg

Here's a slightly better picture of the blade.

$ANCSLBlade.jpg
 
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hig789

hig789

I think you are putting too much value in the scales. They are nice but pre ban ivory can still be had. Sell it of you want but be careful on eBay cause you aren't suppose to sell ivory on there. I would just keep it and clean it up your self and have a nice razor and do not unpin the scales or you will definatly be making new scales, because old ivory is very fragile. Just my 2 cents. Take it as you wish. Oh yeah and nice razor.
 
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DominoM

hig789 said:
I think you are putting too much value in the scales.
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Not really. I just know it's worth more than I paid (about the price of a Gold Dollar!).

But I have absolutely no idea of what it'd be worth to a collector, hence why I'm asking for advice. I'd hate to find out I wrecked something someone wanted for their collection just because I wanted to play with a dremel. It was my total inability to find anything about it on google, or even any other A & N CSL razor mentions that made me think perhaps the razor as a whole is rare.

I am leaning towards keeping it though, as the A & N CSL became Army & Navy Stores after 1934, and I've fond memories of shopping there for ex army clothes and my first pair of Doc Martins as a teenager. So it does have value beyond the price to me too.
 
superbleu

superbleu

That looks like devil's spit on the toe side half of the razor. If that's the case the scales are probably worth more than the razor, but cracked Ivory scales are not nearly as valuable as intact ones.
 
The Mick

The Mick

devil's spit looks like it's just staining on a blade but as you clean it up you find that under it is deep pitting in the metal. Or something to that effect I've not encountered it as of yet just read about it.
 
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ladykate

ladykate

I have a pair of ivory scales that are almost the mirror image of those. Crack and all. I took them off a junker that I restored. I'm thinking about chopping them and using them as a Kamisori handle.

I'm saying that to say... maybe just clean it up and make use of the parts. If the toe is ruined - which you will find if when you start the cleanup, then the scales can be salvaged - at least a little. You could make a nifty Kamisori object from the blade, too. Chop the scales, epoxy them onto the shortened blade and Bob's your uncle. (see: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/292615-Putting-my-efforts-into-one-sock-Ladykate for some scales that were repurposed ). I don't think there is a downside (call me Pollyanna ).
 
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DominoM

So devil's spit is basically rusting from the inside out?

Clean it up it is then. Either I get a nice razor, or I get a great lesson on things to watch out for.. Win win :)
 
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DominoM

Is the pivot on ivory scales normally loose or should it be tight? This one is practically floppy.

One of the things I got from Army & Navy was a French army jacket. I remember my great granddad taking offense at me wearing it. That brought back an even earlier memory of how I used to be fascinated watching him shave - he used an electric but always pulled funny faces doing it, often using his hands to exaggerate the effect. I now realize that must have come from using a straight when he was younger and he just carried the skin stretching over to his electric shaving :001_smile
 
ladykate

ladykate

Is the pivot on ivory scales normally loose or should it be tight? This one is practically floppy.
Click to expand...

Shouldn't be floppy. Be careful if you peen it - use light taps and make sure you hit the pin. Don't over-tighten - I have smerched a couple of scales by being a little zealous on tightening. Wait until you get the blade cleaned up so you tighten just once. Which is obvious but I wanted to say it. ;-}
 
Pkrankow

Pkrankow

Don't peen if you are considering taking it apart! If the pin is loose enough you may be able to compress the scales to the blade and grind the smaller head off, then unpin with little risk to the scales. Still much higher risk than leaving them alone...

Nice score.

I think you will need to remove some material at the edge to get into good, honeable material, but it should be restorable.

Phil
 
tomjr

tomjr

i would say it is restorable, but the only way to tell for certain is to give it a go.the first thing is to see if u can get a usable edge if u do go from there because without a clean edge it is a moot point.
 
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DominoM

I started cleaning up it today. Was a nice summers day so sat in the garden with a pile of 120 grit wet & dry sandpaper, a tub of water and the razor. It was slow going, but I wanted to try and preserve the etching.

After about half an hour I decided to remove the scales. I ground the end of one side of the pivot pin, but couldn't quite get close enough to totally remove it. I carefully used a pair of flush cut snips to lift the last bit of peening and managed to remove the scales without any damage.

After about another hour or so of sanding the etching was starting to vanish in places but I still hadn't got to the bottom of the pitting. I switched to the dremel as it was obvious I either had to keep the pitting or lose the etching and a few minutes later the pitting was gone and so was the etching - I didn't see any point in leaving a partial etching and preferred to remove it completely to keep things even. I really need to get one of the snake things for the dremel as I couldn't get the drum onto a lot of the blade correctly.

I didn't have any finer grit dremel drums, and had been in the sun long enough so I called it a day there. I only did the engraved side of the blade so I need to clear the erosion from the rest of the blade next time before going back to hand sanding.

So at least I know now that there's good steel within reach and it looks like there should be no problems getting a good edge. I didn't take Tom's advice to check that first as I was going to investigate the devil's spit issue no matter what.

On the scale the wedge pin was also loose (the wedge spinning round was what convinced me to remove them) and with the crack there making tightening the pin very risky, I think I'll be making new scales even though I got them off intact.

I also got a little experience in using the dremel on a blade held in bare hands, so I feel a little more confident for my other project with the cracked blade :001_smile
 
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