Ethics of cleaning an old razor?

[jamesbeat]

Almost everything you read about antique restoration will tell you not to over clean, ie restore but don't refurbish.

Is cleaning an antique razor, removing all patina and sometimes replacing the scales heresy?

From what I can gather, some people collect razors but don't use them, and they tend to leave them alone rather than clean them up. Seems a waste.

Personally, I love seeing the photos on this forum that show an old rusty razor that has been restored to be as good as, or in some cases better than, new.
It's the way the manufacturer intended it to look, and the way it looked when the original purchaser bought it.

I'm pretty sure that razors are the only antique that I have ever seen (apart form Japanese swords) that are worth more after complete refurbishment.

In another thread, Sticky mentioned that he doesn't mind stains on a blade because they gives it character, which whilst not for me, I do understand.

 

[professorchaos]

Ideally, I like to refurbish and try to retain all original parts. If I can, I won't even remove the pins.

 

[jlander]

It really depends on the razor. If it has rust or pitting, I have no problem having it completely refurbished. However, if it can be cleaned, honed, and used as is I usually leave it at that. If I can find a NOS I prefer that as a shaver as well. That is what they were made for. I understand "wall hangers" but I have shaved with every blade I've owned. Some stayed in rotation, some were unsalvageable.

 

[jamesbeat]

Yes, the NOS aspect is interesting.

I've never really understood how an antique can lose all or most of its value if it is refurbished, yet a NOS example would be worth more than a used one.

I'm thinking for instance of firearms, where rebluing destroys a lot of collector value no matter how well the job is done, yet an unfired example in mint condition may be extremely valuable, despite not having a patina to attest to its history.

Why is a NOS artifact worth more than a tired and worn example, yet if the tired and worn one was brought back up to the standard of the NOS one, it would decrease in value?

I guess I never really got the patina thing, to me 'patina' is just dirt

I think that my reason for preferring completely restored razors is that it gives me a greater sense of the age of the object.
That may seem counter intuitive, but hear me out. If the object in question is old and looks its age, then I feel like a modern person holding a relic of the past.
If the object is restored to the condition that it was in when it left the factory, then I get more of a sense of having 'traveled back in time' because it looks new, yet it is old.

At the time when men shaved with these razors as the norm, they wouldn't have looked pitted and stained. If they got into that condition, they probably would have been cleaned up or replaced with a new one.

Can anyone relate to that, or am I just rambling?

 

[Sticky]

I'm in the middle.

I like to keep the original scales whenever possible. I will remove obvious rust and such, but don't really want a vintage razor to be mirror finished. NOS appearance is good for me. I can see the attraction for those who like to completely refurbish and customize. Some of the work put out by members is simply stunning.

 

[vgod]

i have a couple of shavers that have patina and waterspots and such. and i have sold a few that were not perfect restores, minor pitting and some spots. prices were adjusted. i have a couple that i do not plan on doing anything to and letting them set (2 mint NOS), and i have a couple of top end customs that i use as part of the rotation. it all just depends on the razor.

scales get replaced if not reusable, bugbites, warped, ugly as sin. otherwise the OG scales go back on.

i love when people, especially barbers, ask me if i collect them. 'no, i am not a collector, i am a user.' that usually gets a few dear in headlights looks.

good luck.

vgod

 

[DogHair]

I kind of go with an "as needed" approach. I try to keep as much original as possible. Don't get me wrong, custom scales and a mirror finish are great it's just not something I shoot for very often.

 

[john.crissman]

I am more of a utilitarian. I buy razors to use, then admire.

 

[jamesbeat]

I am more of a utilitarian. I buy razors to use, then admire.

Good point, and one that didn't really occur me until you said it.
Perhaps I should have put another category in the poll to reflect function over form as a priority.

I guess some people might do the exact opposite to my other category: 'I like refurbished razors as 'users' and untouched ones as wallhangers'

I bet a lot of people restore their 'drawer queens' but aren't too fussed about the appearance of their daily shavers.

 

[UbuRoy]

I only clean dirt and rust but never polish as much as possible because of etchings. I have no probs with black spots. But tha razor must be maximum sharp for usage. It was made for shaving and not for museum ;-)

I always try to restaurate the scales or use other vintage scales (if the old ones are broken) from the same age including pins, style ect.
I think every vintage razor has its own history to tell and for this he need a patina and sign of usage.
It's not my job to delete this "life".

So much old great tools, houses, meubles and other things are completely gone because of wars. I try to beware the ones I have as original as possible.
It's my kind of philosophie in many ways I go.
No future is possible without history...

 

[kenrup]

It is my experience that a well restored razor will have a much greater value. I would imagine a situation were a razor in original condition with all the patina, spots and gunk would be that belonged to a famous individual or used in a specific circumstance, it would be worth more. I have two such razors that were used by Iraqi Republican guards for interrogation purposes. I don't think they have a real monetary value; however, out respect and honor for the victims I do value them.

 

[pal]

I love old razors and I want them to look good but not perfect. IMHO, a little discoloration and a pock here or there lends character to the razor.

 

[BigBubba]

Almost everything you read about antique restoration will tell you not to over clean, ie restore but don't refurbish.

Is cleaning an antique razor, removing all patina and sometimes replacing the scales heresy?

From what I can gather, some people collect razors but don't use them, and they tend to leave them alone rather than clean them up. Seems a waste.

Personally, I love seeing the photos on this forum that show an old rusty razor that has been restored to be as good as, or in some cases better than, new.
It's the way the manufacturer intended it to look, and the way it looked when the original purchaser bought it.

I'm pretty sure that razors are the only antique that I have ever seen (apart form Japanese swords) that are worth more after complete refurbishment.

In another thread, Sticky mentioned that he doesn't mind stains on a blade because they gives it character, which whilst not for me, I do understand.

If you watch the bay for straights it's usually the shiny razors (restored or not) that bring a much higher price. I only bid on ones that need a little TLC, as I have more time than money. :/
Also, if you watch the market the phrase "shave ready" has commanded a higher premium (regardless of the seller having a reputation of being able to hone a razor).
It looks like the tide has shifted a bit, and quite a few of the buyers (if not a majority) are buying vintage straights to use them rather than just collect them.


On another note, I recently went a little further on a razor than just a restoration (my avatar), and while I'm very happy with the results, I still feel a little bit guilty for changing a piece of history.

It is my experience that a well restored razor will have a much greater value. I would imagine a situation were a razor in original condition with all the patina, spots and gunk would be that belonged to a famous individual or used in a specific circumstance, it would be worth more. I have two such razors that were used by Iraqi Republican guards for interrogation purposes. I don't think they have a real monetary value; however, out respect and honor for the victims I do value them.

Damn. That's got to be something really heavy (emotionally) to hold in your hand. Just curious here, do you shave with them?

 

[kenrup]

Damn. That's got to be something really heavy (emotionally) to hold in your hand. Just curious here, do you shave with them?

I did shave once with one of them to "redeem" the purpose of the razor. The one had trashed scales and I had it rescaled by Traveller (Gary) with his shepherd's cross in the one scale.

 

[DogHair]

So what's the consensus on popping the pins to thoroughly clean a razor? I usually try to avoid it unless there is some sort of scale damage.

 

[kenrup]

If I see ANY sign of rust in pivot area and especially on the inside of the scales, I will drill out the pins. But then, I'm setup to do that kind of work comfortably. If the rust is not stop, it will continue to damage and at the very least stain the razor.

 

[Mejnoon]

Ideally, I like to refurbish and try to retain all original parts. If I can, I won't even remove the pins.

I agree...I like my razors as original as possible.

With that said, sometimes you have to pop pins/remove metal/rescale if you want to have a razor thats attractive and usable. I'd rather see a cool old razor restored and used than sitting in a drawer or even a display case.

 

[Confilo]

This is an ongoing debate among curators and conservators of other works of art. When too many people put their hands trying to make it look like new, when does it cease to be an original?

 

[BillEllis]

While a razor could still be considered original after a thorough cleaning which may include the use of a bit of metal polish, once sandpaper touches it or the pins come off, it is no longer original.

I further submit that a proper restoration will not be evident to most collectors after the work is done. That expression of someone having just restored this or that razor is used a little too loosely in my opinion.

But there I go, getting nit-picky with my words again...

 

[Confilo]

While a razor could still be considered original after a thorough cleaning which may include the use of a bit of metal polish, once sandpaper touches it or the pins come off, it is no longer original.

I further submit that a proper restoration will not be evident to most collectors after the work is done. That expression of someone having just restored this or that razor is used a little too loosely in my opinion.

But there I go, getting nit-picky with my words again...

Bill
Your opinion is shared by many conservators and restorers, cleaning and other work done to the object to avoid more damage due to exposure or age is ok and better if the work done is reversible.
Things get confusing when trying to restore the original looks of its period, new modern materials are used. Of course, if a collector ask for that type of work is fine as long as later on it does not try to pass it as "in its original condition"
I though the post in this thread interesting, I'm no razors expert but I work in a Museum with a conservation lab and we do have an encyclopedic collection which includes Japanese swords and nobody should attempt to shave with a katana