Diamond razor giving me issues!

[bad-bryce]

I have been having a real hard time honing this Diamond razor up to the level I want it at. I started from the begining, the bevel. I made sure i was able to pop hair off all along the bevel at 1200 grit. From there i went to my Coti and a started on the blue side with a good slurry. Once I saw the scratches going away i lightened the slurry until it was just water. Then i moved to the yellow side and did the same, got a slurry going and worked my way up to water. I able to remove arm hair easily but not the HHT. I get like a violin playing motion and I know it can do the HHT because it did when I bought it from Phil from classicedge.ca. I know there is a slight smile in the razor, so i have been doing the wavy strokes.I get sometimes a high pitch screech noise when I work the heel. Any reason why? Could it be that the type of metal used is a little bit more stubborn than others? I started with this razor because it is my least expensive razor and wanted to learn on this before i move to my Dorko, Kropp or Torrey where I value them a lot. Rather learn and mess up the Diamond before moving on. Here is a pick of the razor,



Any idea on where to go from here?

 

[Slash McCoy]

I won't tell you the best way because everybody's way is his own best way and when you decide upon a specific method, it will be your best way. But I will tell you MY way. There isn't enough smile there to worry about. I would just hone it straight.

The first time I hone a blade, I always set the bevel using the burr method. I raise a burr by honing just one side until I can feel the burr along the entire length of the blade, on the opposite side. Then I flip the blade and hone the same number of strokes, and I should feel a burr on the opposite side for the full length of the razor. Then I hone with normal alternating laps until that burr is completely gone. The bevel is then not only properly set, but totally verified. The burr tells the tale.

It is possible that you are thinning your slurry too fast, especially in the later stages. Or using too much pressure. But I find the biggest stumbling block for newbies with cotis is having too small of a stone, and inadvertantly bending the blade over the near edge of the rock, and also letting the shoulder ride up on the rock. Also, rolling x strokes are a bit tricky. You are introducing a freehand component into an otherwise precision oriented process. That is why I prefer to hone very slight smileys straight. Flat honing is much easier to get absolutely right.

Big coticules are expensive. That is a fact. Still cheaper than a progression of shaptons, but expensive, nonetheless. So there is a big incentive to go small, i.e. under 70mm wide. Some guys use cotis that are half that width, and in skilled hands, there is nothing wrong with that. Experienced coticulists can turn out great edges with very small rocks. But a newbie will have to overcome a lot of handicap when honing on a small rock of any sort. So be patient. It may take a while. Look more for slow and steady improvement than for the eureka moment.

Of course you can always go with lapping film.
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...emo-on-youtube?highlight=youtube+lapping+film

 

[gash]

Have you tried shaving with the new edge?

 

[MilkyLee]

I second the fact that you should shave with it and see how it goes.

 

[Gamma]

OP - a shave test will bring you absolute results report so that's good info.
Being newish to honing, it's not unusual to find a hurdle or two with using a new Coti - you could be auto-slurrying at the finish and bringing the edge back a bit. Or - your bevel might not be as spot-on as you think.
If you post a photo of your stone - someone here might be able to make a few helpful suggestions.

 

[bad-bryce]

I marked my edge with a sharpie and did honed it straight but i was left sharpie marks towarrda the ends, so I assumed rolling strokes would take care of it and it has.

For the bur method, what grit do you start on? I have a Duo sharp 325/1200 and it take metal away fast. Then i have my Coti combo blue and yellow. True, I do not have a full size water stone 3x7 and it would make things easier. It is just a little fustrating process i guess when you really want to learn how to hone and getting the results you do not want.

I won't tell you the best way because everybody's way is his own best way and when you decide upon a specific method, it will be your best way. But I will tell you MY way. There isn't enough smile there to worry about. I would just hone it straight.

The first time I hone a blade, I always set the bevel using the burr method. I raise a burr by honing just one side until I can feel the burr along the entire length of the blade, on the opposite side. Then I flip the blade and hone the same number of strokes, and I should feel a burr on the opposite side for the full length of the razor. Then I hone with normal alternating laps until that burr is completely gone. The bevel is then not only properly set, but totally verified. The burr tells the tale.

It is possible that you are thinning your slurry too fast, especially in the later stages. Or using too much pressure. But I find the biggest stumbling block for newbies with cotis is having too small of a stone, and inadvertantly bending the blade over the near edge of the rock, and also letting the shoulder ride up on the rock. Also, rolling x strokes are a bit tricky. You are introducing a freehand component into an otherwise precision oriented process. That is why I prefer to hone very slight smileys straight. Flat honing is much easier to get absolutely right.

Big coticules are expensive. That is a fact. Still cheaper than a progression of shaptons, but expensive, nonetheless. So there is a big incentive to go small, i.e. under 70mm wide. Some guys use cotis that are half that width, and in skilled hands, there is nothing wrong with that. Experienced coticulists can turn out great edges with very small rocks. But a newbie will have to overcome a lot of handicap when honing on a small rock of any sort. So be patient. It may take a while. Look more for slow and steady improvement than for the eureka moment.

Of course you can always go with lapping film.
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...emo-on-youtube?highlight=youtube+lapping+film

 

[smalltank]

it might take you much longer to actually get a perfect bevel to start..1 razor I did for someone took me 3 hours..another took me 45 minutes just to get the bevel on it..and im not new to straights..but it just depends on how far your edge is away from coming back to life..make sense?..stick with the DMT1200 I have one and it never fails...then I finish on my combo coti sides with oil..30 laps on linen/50 on leather...done!

 

[Gamma]

I marked my edge with a sharpie and did honed it straight but i was left sharpie marks towarrda the ends, so I assumed rolling strokes would take care of it and it has.

Excellent choice - it might be that your rolling technique isn't refined enough yet and that the bevel at the toe/heel aren't spot-on. You may need to work those areas a bit more.

For the bur method, what grit do you start on?

If you add another variable now - you may create more issues than solutions. FWIW - you can do this on your 1.2k. But I don't see any advantage to this method nor do I see a good reason for you to introduce it into your skill-set now. But - those are just my opinions.

I have a Duo sharp 325/1200 and it take metal away fast.

Yes - they do work quickly. The 1.2k should be fine here - personally, I don't like using a DMT but they do work.

Then i have my Coti combo blue and yellow.

You could set the bevel on the 1.2k DMT, then go to the Coticule with confidence. Watch the undercut of water on the Coti - that will tell you a lot about your edge.

True, I do not have a full size water stone 3x7 and it would make things easier.

Throwing money at a problem never guarantees a solution. You should be fine with your current set-up.

It is just a little fustrating process i guess when you really want to learn how to hone and getting the results you do not want.

Welcome to honing. Regardless of what you've read - there is no fast track. It doesn't matter which stones you own, or how much you've read - it takes time/effort to get 'there'. Hang in there and when you get frustrated put it down and do something else to clear your head. Mistakes made out of anger and frustration are hard to reverse.

 

[Proinsias]

The progressive method for the Belgian Blue/Coticule might be worth a shot. Start with a slurry on the yellow side, then switch to slurry on the blue, the finish with water only on the yellow.

It might be worth tackling the issue from both sides. Pick a shave ready blade and use the coticule with water only for occasional touch ups and keep the diamond going as your 'ground up' project.

And to echo the others, try a shave test. You may be pleasantly surprised what a razor which does not pass the hht can achieve.

 

[Slash McCoy]

I marked my edge with a sharpie and did honed it straight but i was left sharpie marks towarrda the ends, so I assumed rolling strokes would take care of it and it has.

For the bur method, what grit do you start on? I have a Duo sharp 325/1200 and it take metal away fast. Then i have my Coti combo blue and yellow. True, I do not have a full size water stone 3x7 and it would make things easier. It is just a little fustrating process i guess when you really want to learn how to hone and getting the results you do not want.

No need for the 325 unless a lot of steel needs to be removed. The 325 is great for grinding away a chipped edge or a frown, but I imagine your 1200 will do the job nicely. Since your bevel is probably not far from being right, no sense giving up a whole lot of steel. You can never get it back. Raising a burr with the 325 would make for an unacceptable loss of steel in this case, I think. Possibly the only real benefit of the method in this case is to verify that your bevel is indeed set. If it is, you will have a burr in as few as 30 laps.

The sharpie test is a great diagnostic tool. Yes you can hit the ends with rolling x strokes. Myself, I prefer to jst hone flat. If I end up with a small bit at either end that isn't sharp, no biggie. Eventually, after a few years, honing flat will eat enough steel that the ends will be honed.

 

[mainaman]

I marked my edge with a sharpie and did honed it straight but i was left sharpie marks towarrda the ends, so I assumed rolling strokes would take care of it and it has.

For the bur method, what grit do you start on?

How much honing experience do you have?
Why are you going to raise a burr? You do not have to do that to set bevels. Burrs are for knives where you have a ton of steel to use, unlike razors where steel to remove is not abundant. If your bevel is indeed set correctly you are having issues with your coticule. Either need to learn how to use it correctly or it is not the right stone for the job, as natural vary a lot. If you happen to have a synthetic set in the 3-5k and 8k ranges use those to eliminate any variables that come with natural stones.
As fir the screeching sound, it can be grit contamination it could be pieces from the edge that chipped and were in the slurry. It would be a good thing to have a magnifying tool such as loupe or scope to see what is going on with your edge while honing.

 

[Greybeard]

The screeching sound could be the shoulder sliding across the hone. Wider expanse of metal scraping. It could also be your slurry drying out. Like nails on a blackboard.