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Demystifying Brushes

I have frequently posted that I don't believe that there are "soap brushes" and "cream brushes." I've said "Hey, it doesn't matter, they all lather." I then promptly pick up a nice, scrubby brush that most would consider a soap brush when I'm using a soap, and a big, luxurious puffball when I'm using a cream. Whatever happened to talking the talk and walking the walk? :001_huh:

Well, my experience in the Cade Challenge has finally proven to me, once and for all, that I was right :001_smile. In my hands, Cade soap has always been troublesome. It has that alluring scent, but the lather for me has always been mediocre at best. It always smelled great, but produced a thin, unsatisfying lather. In the Cade Challenge, I and many others are sticking with Cade for at least the month of November (I will use it until it's finished), and I had planned to just use the custom B&B Simpson Eagle in Best for the duration. It's a fantastic brush with soaps, and I thought that if anything could lather Cade into submission, it would be the Eagle. :thumbup:

But no, it was not meant to be. The Eagle was no better with Cade than anything I had used previously. :thumbdown I then went rotating through my brushes that handle soap with ease, the Rooney 1/1 Finest, the Simpson 57, the Simpson Tulip 2, and the Rooney Beehive. All were better than the Eagle, but still nothing to write home about. Meanwhile, others participating in the challenge were having fantastic shaves with this soap.

On a whim, I pulled out the Savile Row 3824, whose 24 mm knot and 54 mm loft is filled with a dense (but not too dense) pack of badger hair that has wonderfully soft tips. It is not what anyone in their right mind would call a soap brush. In fact, I had used it primarily with creams, a great performer with a luxurious feel. Nothing else was working well with Cade, so I threw caution to the wind and used the 3824, with stunning results. Face lathering Cade with this brush produced a lather that was rich, slick and very effective. It was almost as good as what I get from tallow soaps like AoS. It produced the same the next day too. Today, I tried Cade with the big Simpson Harvard H4, which also has a 24 mm knot, and it delivered just like the 3824. :thumbup1:

These results fly right in the face of all conventional brush wisdom, but I now actually believe what I was saying :blush:. A brush is a brush. They will all now get a fair shake regardless of what I am lathering.
 
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Thanks, beginish! My "cream brush" is a 55mm-loft EJ Super poof ball, which can't face-lather, but handles soaps just fine. Just takes a bit more to load. I use fairly deep glass dishes for my soaps, which keep the bristles on the top of the puck. I could see how this wouldn't work for guys loading out of shallow wooden bowls.
 
IMHO
One could most likly make a decent lather and apply said lather with a sponge than proceed to have a fine shave.
My passion is for brushes made from esoteric, natural materials, one off items that border on works of art, pleasing to the eye,a joy to hold in the hand.
At the end of the day, a shaving brush in reality is nothing more than a shaving soap applicator,Akin to a paint brush.
 
IMHO
One could most likly make a decent lather and apply said lather with a sponge than proceed to have a fine shave.
My passion is for brushes made from esoteric, natural materials, one off items that border on works of art, pleasing to the eye,a joy to hold in the hand.
At the end of the day, a shaving brush in reality is nothing more than a shaving soap applicator,Akin to a paint brush.

Yes, but talk to a painter and they will tell you the bristle material makes a huge difference in how the paint goes on and different materials mate better with different types of paint. With a shaving brush, a quality brush is just that and works well no matter the soap or cream.
 
Yep, exactly. No brush lathers "better" than any other brush. It's all personal preference in regards to the feel.
 
couldn't agree more...in my small arsenal, nothing lathers MWF better than my Thater Chubby/0..it is not what I would call a soap brush
 
I had a Savile Row 3824 with a 61mm loft before Charles shortened the lofts on the Savile Row line. That brush would lather the hell out of any soap. Really it all boils down to properly loading the brush. If you don't properly load the brush with soap, then your lather will sub par. These taller lofted "cream brushes" can require a few extra seconds to get the proper load.
 
I have two cream brushes (Shavemac #177 25mm and Shavemac Custom Horn 23mm) and for soaps I use brushes with more of a backbone (Rooney 1/2 24mm and Simpsons Colonel). I am glad to have 4 brushes in my rotation so I can give the others a break!
 
I have to agree with Bob. Just when you thought you have it all sorted out it turns topsy turvy.

Milkchurn...I thought relegated to creams because of its stellar performance there.... tried it on MWF and crap.... it just exploded the lather....scratched my head and tried the H4.... also exploded....just when I thought I had it all figured out.......Hell now I have to start over
 
I find myself brushes with larger knots, longer lofts, and decent but not obscene density work very well. mixes together quite well. 24mm knots being a particular sweet spot. My older Savile Row 3824 with the longer loft is exceptional in this area. :thumbup1:

But in the end everyone has their preferences, so go with what works for you! :thumbup1:
 
I had a Savile Row 3824 with a 61mm loft before Charles shortened the lofts on the Savile Row line. That brush would lather the hell out of any soap. Really it all boils down to properly loading the brush. If you don't properly load the brush with soap, then your lather will sub par. These taller lofted "cream brushes" can require a few extra seconds to get the proper load.

+1

Brushes are tools, nothing more nothing less. Tools are tuned for a specific job. That however does not mean they can only do one job. In the same way that you can turn a screw with a butter knife you can use any brush on any soap/cream. Sometimes the butter knife is functionally identical to the screw driver, and sometimes its not. The psychological term for this concept is "object utility non-permanence". Now when you get into different types of soaps/creams of coarse some will do better with brush or another.

Cade (much like most shea butter soaps) in particular seems to like a less dense brush. I would like to suggest a third option to the soap vs. cream brush argument. Shea butter soaps do very well with two band brushes. The wide base of the bristles give the brushes the backbone to load quickly, while the thin soft tips give the soap room to whip up much like a "cream brush" would. While I cant say I have been doing the Cade November challenge, I have used this soap 4 out of 7 days lately, and my two bands seem to do very well.
 
Based on my most recent experience, I have to agree with Bob on this. Back in September I received a puck and bowl of MWF from SWMBO, and this was the very first time I ever used the Fat. For the past two and a half months I would only get a decent to mediocre lather with the Fat, and I was using brushes that would be considered "soap brushes" because of their loft and density--a Commodore X1 and a TGN 22mm.

A few days ago I got a Vie-Long white badger brush with a 20mm knot and 50mm loft, which is less dense than the TGN and significantly less dense than the Commodore. The Commodore and Vie-Long have 20mm knots, but the Vie-Long has about 3/4 of the hair of the Commodore and is approximately 5mm taller. After two test lathers and an actual shave using MWF, the Vie-Long consistently produced mounds of thick yogurt like lather for three to four passes. The Vie-Long also loaded MWF better than the TGN or Commodore after one minute.

Just to make sure this wasn't my "finally learning to lather MWF" phenomenon, I tried test lathers with two other more finicky soaps:
Ogallala and Pre de Provence. The results were the same.

Initially, I purchased the Vie-Long as a cream brush, but this distinction no longer holds for it.
 
Brushes are tools, nothing more nothing less. Tools are tuned for a specific job. That however does not mean they can only do one job. In the same way that you can turn a screw with a butter knife you can use any brush on any soap/cream. Sometimes the butter knife is functionally identical to the screw driver, and sometimes its not.

And thus my reasoning that I must build an adjustable brush.
I see the drawing in my head - I could get most of the idea down on paper fairly easily.
I need help with one part - then I need a machinist to build me a prototype so I can iron out the bugs.

This is why I can't sleep at night..... it really has to stop.... :001_smile
 
And thus my reasoning that I must build an adjustable brush.
I see the drawing in my head - I could get most of the idea down on paper fairly easily.
I need help with one part - then I need a machinist to build me a prototype so I can iron out the bugs.

This is why I can't sleep at night..... it really has to stop.... :001_smile

You could just buy one of these....

proxy.php
 
That's the Kmart version of what I want to build.
My idea is somewhat more complex that that.
More fun too.
 
I have frequently posted that I don't believe that there are "soap brushes" and "cream brushes." I've said "Hey, it doesn't matter, they all lather." I then promptly pick up a nice, scrubby brush that most would consider a soap brush when I'm using a soap, and a big, luxurious puffball when I'm using a cream. Whatever happened to talking the talk and walking the walk? :001_huh:

Well, my experience in the Cade Challenge has finally proven to me, once and for all, that I was right :001_smile. In my hands, Cade soap has always been troublesome. It has that alluring scent, but the lather for me has always been mediocre at best. It always smelled great, but produced a thin, unsatisfying lather. In the Cade Challenge, I and many others are sticking with Cade for at least the month of November (I will use it until it's finished), and I had planned to just use the custom B&B Simpson Eagle in Best for the duration. It's a fantastic brush with soaps, and I thought that if anything could lather Cade into submission, it would be the Eagle. :thumbup:

But no, it was not meant to be. The Eagle was no better with Cade than anything I had used previously. :thumbdown I then went rotating through my brushes that handle soap with ease, the Rooney 1/1 Finest, the Simpson 57, the Simpson Tulip 2, and the Rooney Beehive. All were better than the Eagle, but still nothing to write home about. Meanwhile, others participating in the challenge were having fantastic shaves with this soap.

On a whim, I pulled out the Savile Row 3824, whose 24 mm knot and 54 mm loft is filled with a dense (but not too dense) pack of badger hair that has wonderfully soft tips. It is not what anyone in their right mind would call a soap brush. In fact, I had used it primarily with creams, a great performer with a luxurious feel. Nothing else was working well with Cade, so I threw caution to the wind and used the 3824, with stunning results. Face lathering Cade with this brush produced a lather that was rich, slick and very effective. It was almost as good as what I get from tallow soaps like AoS. It produced the same the next day too. Today, I tried Cade with the big Simpson Harvard H4, which also has a 24 mm knot, and it delivered just like the 3824. :thumbup1:

These results fly right in the face of all conventional brush wisdom, but I now actually believe what I was saying :blush:. A brush is a brush. They will all now get a fair shake regardless of what I am lathering.

A great post Bob- many thanks. I have been pleasantly surprised during the Cade Challenge as well- a couple of brushes that normally don't see soap pucks have been very good performers. Rotate, rotate, rotate! :thumbup1:
 
I totally agree, Bob. Excellent write up. Thank you for posting! :thumbup1:

Ditto, but the only thing I can see wrrong with the analysis is that it throws my argument with SWMBO out the window.
You know, the one about, that I need to have separate brushes for different soaps/creams/sticks, face/bowl.

Maybe I won't let her read this thread. :001_smile
 
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