Damascus Steel

[barnstormer]

I have a question for all of you experienced SR guys. I havn't gotten into using a straight yet. As I have been looking around I have seen several razors that have blades made from damascus steel. I know that knives with this kind of steel are supposed to be good quality but I was just wondering what the concensus was on the razors. Does this kind of steel hone well or hold an edge comparably to tradition steel blades? How comfortable is the shave with these razors? I just really like the look of them, they are really beautiful. I ask this because I think if I see one for sale, I might not be able to help myself!

Thanks Everyone!

 

[Raithskar]

If you want a true Damascus steel razor you are going to pay big money for it. First name that comes to mind naturally is Tim Zowada. He forge welds his own damascus.

The stuff on ebay, and the like that is dirt cheap is junk. Forging true quality Damascus steel is a very intricate and labor intensive process. With that said, I would by a Zowada without question if my budget allowed. Those that own one of Tim's razors give them high praise. All aspects of Zowadas work is second to none IMO. This includes scales. fit, finish and the honing.

I am sure some of our fellow members that own a Zowada, and other quality maker's work such as Mastro Livi will chime in here.

Long Story short.....you get what you pay for with Damascus.

Hope this helps

 

[Obiwan]

I don't own a TW, but I do have some quality damascus steel. To answer your question, it takes and retains edges very well. Assuming it's quality, the main difference is in appearence IMO. That said, they sure are pretty.

 

[mainaman]

Damascus steel razors are made by sandwiching a good quality carbon steel between the damascus. So the whole cutting experience comes from the core not the damascus itself. When you are buying damascus you are paying premium for looks not performance.

 

[MileMarker60]

Damascus steel razors are made by sandwiching a good quality carbon steel between the damascus. So the whole cutting experience comes from the core not the damascus itself. When you are buying damascus you are paying premium for looks not performance.

There are many Damascus straight that don't have a solid core. Assuming the damascus billet is high carbon, the most common make up is 1095 and 15n20. One layer is .9 carbon (1095) and the other is .75 carbon with a little added nickel (15n20).
Assuming the edge is protected while etching, there should be no problem with the damascus itself being the cutting edge.

 

[JHCC]

Damascus steel razors are made by sandwiching a good quality carbon steel between the damascus. So the whole cutting experience comes from the core not the damascus itself. When you are buying damascus you are paying premium for looks not performance.

+1 on this. To be clear, what most people call "Damascus Steel" is more accurately named "Pattern-Welded Steel", which is multiple layers of different steels forge welded together. True Damascus Steel is also known as "Wootz Steel", which is one material with a pattern that appears through a specific chemical composition and a particular heat treating process. For a good explanation of the difference (and some interesting historical tidbits), see this knifeforums.com post and this Scientific American article.

With regard to razors, Mainaman is quite right; pattern-welded Damascus has variations in hardness that look lovely but are impossible to sharpen to the perfectly straight, evenly sharp edges a straight razor requires. Wootz Steel, on the other hand, has a balance of hardness and flexibility that is great in a sword, but is too soft for a razor.

 

[goatee]

i bought a couple of those cheap one from ebay. you cant put an edge on them. i sent them both back.

 

[noahpictures]

I have three vintage Boker and one Thistle damascus steel razors. They are keepers.

 

[barnstormer]

Thanks for all the info. I have seen some cheap ones, and I did question them. You denfinately confirmed my suspisions. I guess I will just keep appreciating the pictures of the ones others post until the budget allows. Many seem to suggest whippeddog.com for a starter package. Maybe I will have to check him out to get me going.

 

[JHCC]

I gather that a lot of the cheaper "Damascus" razors aren't even pattern welded, but are regular steel etched to look like Damascus.

 

[jccalabria]

Those Tim Zowada are just beautiful, I'm not into straight razor yet but i would like to start with a dovo 5/8 all stainless, 199.99$ seems like a good deal and razor to start.

 

[Kentos]

+1 on this. To be clear, what most people call "Damascus Steel" is more accurately named "Pattern-Welded Steel", which is multiple layers of different steels forge welded together. True Damascus Steel is also known as "Wootz Steel", which is one material with a pattern that appears through a specific chemical composition and a particular heat treating process. For a good explanation of the difference (and some interesting historical tidbits), see this knifeforums.com post and this Scientific American article.

With regard to razors, Mainaman is quite right; pattern-welded Damascus has variations in hardness that look lovely but are impossible to sharpen to the perfectly straight, evenly sharp edges a straight razor requires. Wootz Steel, on the other hand, has a balance of hardness and flexibility that is great in a sword, but is too soft for a razor.

My "Damascus" steel razor hones up quite nicely and Hht's root in. No complaints from me .
The caveat is that it is a custom razor, not an "import".

 

[mainaman]

There are many Damascus straight that don't have a solid core. Assuming the damascus billet is high carbon, the most common make up is 1095 and 15n20. One layer is .9 carbon (1095) and the other is .75 carbon with a little added nickel (15n20).
Assuming the edge is protected while etching, there should be no problem with the damascus itself being the cutting edge.

Right, I am aware of that but how does pure damaskus work compared to one with core as far as edge properties?

 

[MileMarker60]

Thats a easy question, a edge of a single type of steel would be more consistent assuming all things are equal.
That being said your talking about comparing a edge with a consistent 60 hrc vs. a edge that varies from 60 to 58 hrc.
Are you saying you could tell the difference of 2 points your face?

 

[mainaman]

Thats a easy question, a edge of a single type of steel would be more consistent assuming all things are equal.
That being said your talking about comparing a edge with a consistent 60 hrc vs. a edge that varies from 60 to 58 hrc.
Are you saying you could tell the difference of 2 points your face?

Proibably not going to be able to tell the difference but fir sure the edge retention will be different, that is my only thing in favor of damascus cladded core vs pure damascus.

 

[Wm. T]

I know that TZ and a new vendor here , Delbert Ealy , both make their damascus from O1 and L6 . Maybe Del can post why these 2 steels are what they both consider the best choices when making damascus. Damascus that can perform at the level a razor requires, at the thinness we need .
Also Tim doesn't etch his damascus at the edge ... it's too thin.. it would eat right through.

 

[MileMarker60]

Wm.T
You are correct O1/L6 is a common combo, along with AEB-L /304 in stainless.

 

[RickfromLafayette]

Boker makes 2 current models in Damascus: one a carbon steel and one in stainless steel. I've only seen photos of these razors. I didn't even know they could make Damascus in stainless, what with the chromium content in the steel, but I guess they can. I'd like to know more about these razors.

 

[Wm. T]

Who uses 304 in their damascus in a razor ? It's a steel that can't be hardened..
Perhaps used in san mai styles ? Like japanese kitchen knives ?

 

[MileMarker60]

No, no, I wasn't implying it was "good" for razors (atleast not without a solid core)
Just saying that it's a common combo just same as 1095/12n20 and O1/L6. As to who make AEB-L/304, off the top of my head Rob Thomas and Devin Thomas