Cotticule first pass

[HCSchluge]

So I picked up a nice Coticule and have touched up 3 razors with it and am totally impressed with the performance and results I have achieved so far. I have walked through the tutorials on Coticule.be and am using a form of the Dilucot method - I perform the same steps, just don't use as many strokes. I don't want to over-hone.

During and after the process I check the edge with a 200x lupe and the edge looks fantastic. Also it shaves arm/leg hair with absolute ease, however it doesn't pass the HHT. Now i have never held much stock in the HHT, especially if my shaves are good - and they are! What I am wondering is if I spend a great deal more time and effort getting to HHT, does the shave improve?

I am sure I will sit with a razor and futz with it till i get it there, but just curious of your results.

 

[BladeRunner001]

I wouldn't worry about HHT...that test is a crap chute...sometimes it works, and sometimes not (at least with me). If the edge looks good (with an even bevel), you are good to go

 

[Woodash]

...What I am wondering is if I spend a great deal more time and effort getting to HHT, does the shave improve?
...

I'd say that just because the blade is sharp doesn't necessarily mean that the shave is smooth. You have to find the sweet spot that works for you among your various razors, hones, treatments/pastes, etc. It's all just part of Nature's Pagentry...

 

[huntmol]

When I got my first shave-ready razor, I spent about ten minutes trying to imitate barbers I had seen in movies. Probably lost a good amount of hair that day.

The best advice I got when I first picked up straight shaving is to totally disregard the HHT. For the most part, it's a parlor trick and doesn't tell you anything about the shave.

There's only one way to be 100% sure about the edge, and that's the shave test. Simple yet effective.

 

[jkh]

The HHT is an edge probing test - nothing more, nothing less. It is no different that the thumb pad test, thumb nail test, etc.

If you are happy with your shaves then who cares?

 

[SliceOfLife]

Most of my coticules tend to produce an edge that the HHT reads as harsh (hanging chad, pop, or some other result) on the first shave. After a shave and a second trip to the leather they will silent fall reasonably well. However, I need to go to a slate or novaculite stone to get absolutely flawless silent falls.


I find that yes there is a noticeable improvement in shaves off slates and novaculites over coticules. However it is preference. Coticule edges are easier to shave with. They FEEDBACK on your face (much like feedback on a hone) and are less apt to slice you if you make a slight mistake. The shaves are just the tiniest bit less close (though my hardest coticule's shave closeness would be hard to tell apart from a nova/slate's). I prefer the slate/novaculite shave a tiny bit... not enough to use it exclusively. I shave off my coti's regularly, and I own about as many Coticules as I own Thuringians. Both give great shaves.

That said HHT is far far far far too inconsistent, variable ridden, and open to interpretation to use it in any way to relate to shave quality.

 

[honed]

The HHT is like said above, mostly a parlour trick.
Or a way to see edge-development for an experienced honer, who does it all the time in a consistent way. Then it might be useful.
Like coticule-Jedi Master Bart does it.
He has a "batch" of hair in his honing kit.
Cut at the same time & laid in the box with root pointing one way.
That way he knows that he will get a consistent result.
The HHT can vary widely depending not only on whos hair, but if you just washed your hair & have hair-spary in it & so on.

Also, the edge of a coticule is too smooth to give a good result on the HHT.
Just for kicks I've tried a junker coming right of the 600 grit diamond-hone & then stropped with 1 micron diamond on balsa.
It cut hanging hair like a beast, but the shave would most probably have left me scarred for life

For me the only true test is the shave-test.
Your face won't lie!¨


YMMV

 

[HCSchluge]

Most of my coticules tend to produce an edge that the HHT reads as harsh (hanging chad, pop, or some other result) on the first shave. After a shave and a second trip to the leather they will silent fall reasonably well. However, I need to go to a slate or novaculite stone to get absolutely flawless silent falls.


I find that yes there is a noticeable improvement in shaves off slates and novaculites over coticules. However it is preference. Coticule edges are easier to shave with. They FEEDBACK on your face (much like feedback on a hone) and are less apt to slice you if you make a slight mistake. The shaves are just the tiniest bit less close (though my hardest coticule's shave closeness would be hard to tell apart from a nova/slate's). I prefer the slate/novaculite shave a tiny bit... not enough to use it exclusively. I shave off my coti's regularly, and I own about as many Coticules as I own Thuringians. Both give great shaves.

That said HHT is far far far far too inconsistent, variable ridden, and open to interpretation to use it in any way to relate to shave quality.

Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!!

 

[danjared]

The HHT is like said above, mostly a parlour trick.
Or a way to see edge-development for an experienced honer, who does it all the time in a consistent way. Then it might be useful.
Like coticule-Jedi Master Bart does it.
He has a "batch" of hair in his honing kit.
Cut at the same time & laid in the box with root pointing one way.
That way he knows that he will get a consistent result.
The HHT can vary widely depending not only on whos hair, but if you just washed your hair & have hair-spary in it & so on.

Also, the edge of a coticule is too smooth to give a good result on the HHT.
Just for kicks I've tried a junker coming right of the 600 grit diamond-hone & then stropped with 1 micron diamond on balsa.
It cut hanging hair like a beast, but the shave would most probably have left me scarred for life

For me the only true test is the shave-test.
Your face won't lie!¨


YMMV

I wouldn't really consider it a parlor trick. I've rarely had an edge that I like to shave with that hasn't passed the hanging hair test. And by rarely, I mean maybe once. I think it does take some experience getting to know the hair you're using and the honing method. For example, the honing stroke seems to make a difference in how to read the results of the HHT, and certainly synthetic hones create different edges from natural hones due to impurities and variations in abrasive grain size.

As far as coticule edges, I seem to recall Bart saying this--and I can confirm this result for myself--that a coticule edge really should be thoroughly stropped on both linen and leather for the HHT to be a good indicator of shave-readiness.

I would recommend this read, among others: http://coticule.be/hanging-hair-test.html

EDIT: I forgot to mention that while a diamond hone will leave a toothy edge, a coticule edge (or indeed probably many other natural hones that use slurry) will be rounded due to slurry-dulling. Hence, a coticule edge that is not quite keen would not give the sort of false positive you see from the HHT on diamond.

 

[huntmol]

I wouldn't really consider it a parlor trick. I've rarely had an edge that I like to shave with that hasn't passed the hanging hair test.

Yeah, but it's all subjective. Does everyone have the same hair or prefer the same degree of sharpness?

The problem is new straight users posting something along the lines of, "Hey guys, I've done 100 laps on this coticule but it still won't pass the HHT! What am I doing wrong?"
(it's not a problem that they're posting, they just read about the HHT and figure it's the holy grail or something)

For some, the HHT can work as a final test to see if their razor is shave ready.

I personally feel that it's not very helpful for most people as a shave readiness test, especially those new to straight shaving or honing.

 

[azmark]

FWIW don't do HHT on a finished edge. As subjective as it is since everyones hair is different and may not pop, you can damage your final edge. TPT is good but every razor I finish I do a shave and you can't get a much better test than that.

I think it was Chimench who said his razors don't pass a HHT but his razors shave superb and this is coming from a gentlemen who just celebrated...what was it like 30-40 years shaving with a straight so he knows a thing or three.

 

[danjared]

Yeah, but it's all subjective. Does everyone have the same hair or prefer the same degree of sharpness?

The problem is new straight users posting something along the lines of, "Hey guys, I've done 100 laps on this coticule but it still won't pass the HHT! What am I doing wrong?"
(it's not a problem that they're posting, they just read about the HHT and figure it's the holy grail or something)

For some, the HHT can work as a final test to see if their razor is shave ready.

I personally feel that it's not very helpful for most people as a shave readiness test, especially those new to straight shaving or honing.

I consider something like whether a scent is pleasant or whether beer tastes good a subjective matter. I would say that the HHT is not universally applicable across users of the test, but I don't think that makes it subjective. Calling it subjective to me sounds like it's disregarding the test as even remotely useful, in the same way as calling it a parlor trick does. I find that it's a test that works well for me. Like I said, "I think it does take some experience getting to know the hair you're using and the honing method." There are many things that a new straight razor user should be cautious about, other examples being using advanced shaving strokes (like scything, which could easily result in a newbie slicing open his face) or arguably even honing his own eBay special razor without knowing what a keen edge feels like. On the other hand, HCSchluge sounds like he's been at this game for a couple years and honed sounds like he's successfully had his hand at a few unrestored razors (and what an apropos username!), so I'm directing my comments to them with that in mind. They may find that the hair they use for the HHT does nothing for them, but that's for them to decide. And maybe they prefer the edge off a cinder block like Murray Carter, in which case the matter is moot to them.

FWIW don't do HHT on a finished edge. As subjective as it is since everyones hair is different and may not pop, you can damage your final edge. TPT is good but every razor I finish I do a shave and you can't get a much better test than that.

I think it was Chimench who said his razors don't pass a HHT but his razors shave superb and this is coming from a gentlemen who just celebrated...what was it like 30-40 years shaving with a straight so he knows a thing or three.

Why would a HHT do damage to a finished edge? Wouldn't that mean that shaving with such an edge would damage it too? Even a dry hair from my scalp is thinner and easier to cut than a well-lathered hair on my face. Additionally, one could make an argument concerning the variability in tactile sensitivity across people and say that the TPT is just as inconclusive (or harmful to the edge in calloused hands!) as the HHT.

Also, I never said anything about others not liking their shave from an edge that doesn't pass the hanging hair test for their hair. I merely commented on mine and how I find it to be a very helpful and conclusive test for me. That's to say that I don't consider the HHT a parlor trick (my original point). It may not work or be very useful for everyone who tries, but that's far from meaning that it's just a parlor trick. That just means that not everyone finds it helpful. Personally, I find the TPT less helpful than the HHT and more likely to leave me with a gash in my hand.

 

[azmark]

I
Why would a HHT do damage to a finished edge? Wouldn't that mean that shaving with such an edge would damage it too? Even a dry hair from my scalp is thinner and easier to cut than a well-lathered hair on my face. Additionally, one could make an argument concerning the variability in tactile sensitivity across people and say that the TPT is just as inconclusive (or harmful to the edge in calloused hands!) as the HHT.

That's why I said "may" and "subjective." Your hair is thinner, my hair is far more thicker and so some others may have the same going for them. My hair damages an edge, I've seen it. I also never said TPT is conclusive so hence the best alternative recommendation to save a debate I recommended shaving.

 

[bonusmarple]

I have sharpened about 10 razors with the coticule, so this is the total amount of experience that I have with the stone. Of that 10, I have only gotten 1 to pass HHT off the coticule without stropping. However, I shaved with all but one passing the HHT after stropping and all of those that passed HHT shaved me comfortably. The one that didn't pass HHT did not shave close or comfortable.

All I can draw from this is that the odds are in favor of a razor shaving well using the HHT as a test. Also, stropping is required to really get the most of the blade after it has been on the coticule. This is observation is in line with coticule.be.