Change of opinion at B&B toward the Gold Dollar?

[California Cajun]

http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/Good_and_Bad_Straight_Razor_Brands

When I started over here about three years ago, the use of any razor made in Pakistan, India, or China was discouraged, particularly for beginners. For that reason I never considered purchasing one.

It seems like in recent times there seems to be increasing acceptance of Gold Dollar razors (made in China). Has the quality improved, or is it just a challenge for a few experienced honemeisters to take one and make it serviceable?

 

[GreekGuy]

I think there has been increased awareness that the GD can, in fact, be made into a well shaving tool. The competitions have only further highlighted the possibilities that can come from such a humble razor, and you wouldn't want to experiment with a TI Le Grelot like you would with a GD. Ultimately, thats what this is about, enjoyment, and the GD helps foster that in many ways.

I also think the quality coming out of china has greatly improved, particularly with regards to the shoulders. I got a few recently that still had some issues, but many members have been reporting good quality.

 

[Mike H]

I have played with a several gold dollars. Ground on them, sanded them, pushed them on a DMT 320 like I had a bad itch, all great fun.
IMO, a properly modified GD, shaves as well as a current production Dovo Best.

Spoiler

No, better than current production Dovo best... there, I said it.

 

[Haggises]

I love my GD that Krodor piffed me.
Keeps an edge better than the G+F Adoration.

 

[Seraphim]

The quality of the razors themselves has stayed the same in my experience.

I was an "early adopter" of Gold Dollars, even before they were Gold Dollars and were marketed as "Double Arrow" razors (4+ years ago...).


What has changed, in my opinion, is that guys now pay more attention to what actually WORKS as opposed to what brand something is, or what Someone Upon High said about a razor (soap, hone...whatever).

I could give a wet slap about what someone else thinks or says about something. I want to find out for myself.

"Chinese razors are crap"

Hmmm, so I order up some and find out for myself....nope, not crap at all.

"Pakistani razors are crap"

OK, better find out for myself...hmm, they shave fine too...fit and finish is below the Chinese brand, but not bad at all as far as shave worthyness is concerned.

"Krystal Edge mystery origin razors are obviously total garbage"

*sigh* Yup, better find out for myself


Aside from the "razors being sold as movie props or decorations (i.e.-Sweeney Todd and EBAy Damascus razors that cost $50) most of the other razors out there shave just fine if you are willing to put the effort into honing them correctly.

I will once again post my theory: most of the bad press that GDs get are because someone tried honing one up (likely using the pyramid honing scheme..) and had a crappy shave. Instead of counting laps ("Golly, I did 20 laps on the 4K, and the bevel wasn't set yet..."), if they had properly set the bevel instead of wimping out and then blaming the razor for their failure they would have been rewarded with an excellent shaver.


Sure, I sell modded Gold Dollars, but I have always encouraged guys to go out and get one themselves off of EBay for $4 and see for themselves.



Razors are simply pieces of heat treated steel that are sharpened to a razor's edge.

It's not rocket science.

It's mass production.

The Chinese are very good at mass production.


Buy one.
Get one.
Hone one.
Enjoy one.

 

[Loner16]

Nothing has changed here ... I still consider them to be worthless junk.

 

[Lmarkow]

I bought a modified GD from that funny Hobbyist who sells them here occasionally. Even though I hear he hones on that film stuff, it has shaved great and has held its edge just fine.

 

[Fast Eddie]

I've tried the "venus" razor from Pakistan. Great for buttering toast. Never tried a GD, don't need another bad experience.

 

[Legion]

I figured that they were cheep enough that I had nothing to lose by trying one. After a fair bit of work and time fixing the grind (this was before the tutorials posted here showing how to do that, so I kind of just worked it out as I went) it shaved just fine. Actually it shaved quite well.

When I went travelling for a month it was the only razor I took, fearing losing an expensive razor. It worked like a champ and never needed so much as a touch up to the edge.

 

[daflorc]

I respect the guys on here who take those gold dollars and modify them and make them works of art. Obviously they are made of decent metal since a lot of guys here say so after trying them.

That being said, I appreciate straight razors for their historical significance, rarity, and the "cool" factor, as well as a good, shaveable edge.

After I tried a couple of the "hype" brands - puma, duble duck, filarmonica, etc. - I sold them. Yes, they shave fine. Just like any other razor, IMO.

The ones I keep - Shepherd, Brittain, Rodgers, Wostenholm, Savage, Howson, Greaves, Butcher - THESE are the ones that tickle my fancy.

George Savage made straight razors for three years - 1841 to 1843. They shave as good as anything. For me, a box truck of Gold Dollars will never have anything on that.

 

[jrp316]

I need to grab me one of these fabled and controversial razors...the thought occurs to me now that I've never had a brand new razor.

One thing I like about the whole Gold Dollar/Double Arrow/(insert unknown new brand here) debate is that people here don't simply accept the 'party line' when it comes to different things. They hear something like "Gold Dollars are crap!" and instead of saying, "well, I'll just leave those be and go buy an approved 'good' razor", they say "hey now, I wanna see this for myself." So, they buy said 'crap' razor and determine for themselves if it's a bad deal or not. It seems like Wapienica razors were in a similar category as Gold Dollars some time ago, and now they're quite revered. After all, somebody had to try out the multiple different razor brands to determine if they were good shavers or not at some point, so why not give these razors the same courtesy before blowing them off?

 

[daflorc]

I need to grab me one of these fabled and controversial razors...the thought occurs to me now that I've never had a brand new razor.

One thing I like about the whole Gold Dollar/Double Arrow/(insert unknown new brand here) debate is that people here don't simply accept the 'party line' when it comes to different things. They hear something like "Gold Dollars are crap!" and instead of saying, "well, I'll just leave those be and go buy an approved 'good' razor", they say "hey now, I wanna see this for myself." So, they buy said 'crap' razor and determine for themselves if it's a bad deal or not. It seems like Wapienica razors were in a similar category as Gold Dollars some time ago, and now they're quite revered. After all, somebody had to try out the multiple different razor brands to determine if they were good shavers or not at some point, so why not give these razors the same courtesy before blowing them off?

Yeah, this fact you're talking about really threw me for a loop initially in this hobby. I saw guys on the "other" forum who seemed to know exactly what they were talking about - and much of their advice was good, sound advice. And so I respected a lot of these guys, and valued their opinions. When they said Gold Dollars were crap and can't hold an edge, I took that wisdom at face value.

Now, I still think Gold Dollars are crap - but in the right hands, are blank canvasses to make custom razors - much easier than turning an old file into a straight razor, IMO. So keep it up Seraphim, and the rest of you - you're onto something. I would actually stop calling them "modified gold dollars." Just call them "custom straight razors by Seraphim, made from razor blanks."

 

[California Cajun]

I need to grab me one of these fabled and controversial razors...the thought occurs to me now that I've never had a brand new razor.

One thing I like about the whole Gold Dollar/Double Arrow/(insert unknown new brand here) debate is that people here don't simply accept the 'party line' when it comes to different things. They hear something like "Gold Dollars are crap!" and instead of saying, "well, I'll just leave those be and go buy an approved 'good' razor", they say "hey now, I wanna see this for myself." So, they buy said 'crap' razor and determine for themselves if it's a bad deal or not. It seems like Wapienica razors were in a similar category as Gold Dollars some time ago, and now they're quite revered. After all, somebody had to try out the multiple different razor brands to determine if they were good shavers or not at some point, so why not give these razors the same courtesy before blowing them off?

I don't think the motive for discouraging cheap razors was a "party line" thing, but rather to try to give a new straight shaver the best chance to succeed before he has a chance to familiarize himself with what's out there. I just wondered if Gold Dollar razors had changed, or they had evolved into a hobby for experienced honemeisters to work on them.

 

[jrp316]

The tenor of the discussions I've read on the Gold Dollar in the past seemed to toe a 'party line' to me, but that may only be my interpretation. Many were content to accept the assertions and leave it at that without ever trying it on themselves.

I agree that a newbie to straight shaving should be set up for success at the outset. A good razor, good strop, good brush and soap/cream to get started. Therein lies the key to the argument. A Gold Dollar in factory form (or any new razor in factory form or a nice vintage for that matter) should receive the attention of an experienced honer before it reaches the newbie's hands. If the razor isn't shave ready when it reaches the newbie, it can be a recipe for disaster. Honing or modifying a razor isn't something a newbie should have to tackle for himself yet.

When one gains experience and knowledge in the areas of shaving, honing and razor anatomy/geometry, then he's ready to tackle advanced projects such as rendering a Gold Dollar into a shave ready razor. The wisdom given on the Gold Dollar in particular is that they aren't nearly shave ready from the factory and often require some modifications to get them to the point where they can be honed properly. From there, they've been found to hone as well as any other razor. Hobbyists have taken to them as an excellent means of getting into custom razor making without breaking the bank and making useful pieces at the same time. They've also been made into entry level shavers at prices comparable with a good vintage.

 

[Brenngun]

I purchased one strictly to learn to hone with. I figure if I mess it up it's no sweat for a couple of bucks.

 

[BDF]

I would agree with what you say about GD's as far as taking / keeping an edge. I think they are slightly harder than vintage German razors actually and take at least as good an edge once the shoulders are ground out of the way and any warpage is taken care of by grinding the first few pounds of steel off of the spine.

That said, they really are a lousy razor regarding quality IMO. The shanks are heavy, rounded and have no jimping on top all of which makes them harder to handle during shaving, honing and stropping than, say, a Boker Red Injun or similar. GDs are also nearly anti- hollow ground and are quite heavy when compared with other common razors such as a Boker King Cutter (the vintage 5/8, square point version). No two are quite alike which is an absolute disaster regarding mass production where the objective is to make each one excellent, just like the last one(s). I own and occasionally use GD's but think a somewhat smaller, better made vintage razor would offer a better value to a beginner than the GD even though the actual price is higher.

As a base for modifying them, there is nothing else on the planet that can compete with them as even heat treating a piece of steel would cost more than GD's sell for new. But I think for the new straight razor "operator" (meaning shaving, stropping and possibly honing), the GD's are clunky enough that they make the learning curve a lot steeper than it has to be and invite disappointment. I think a vintage razor of known quality (Boker, Dovo or just about anything else made at least 30 years ago), 5/8" with a full hollow grind and a round or eased square point offers a much better buy for the new straight shaver even though the purchase price is quite a bit higher, say $75 or so.

So I agree with you that a GD can be made into a perfectly acceptable and competitive shaver by a competent honer but I do not think they are the obvious solution just because they are so inexpensive and cheap, especially for a beginner.

As for the attitude 'over there', I have no opinion and rarely visit that forum. I joined that one and this one at the same time but to be honest, I was a little put- off by all the banned users. Sure you guys are pretty terrible biggrin1 but still that much banning makes me think you have to 'get your mind right' to participate there.

Brian

The quality of the razors themselves has stayed the same in my experience.

I was an "early adopter" of Gold Dollars, even before they were Gold Dollars and were marketed as "Double Arrow" razors (4+ years ago...).

<snip>

Razors are simply pieces of heat treated steel that are sharpened to a razor's edge.

It's not rocket science.

It's mass production.

The Chinese are very good at mass production.


Buy one.
Get one.
Hone one.
Enjoy one.

 

[mdawson]

4 straights in my collection now. Best shaver is a GD.

 

[Slash McCoy]

My favorite razor is a GD. My second favorite is a GD. My third favorite is a GD. My fourth favorite is a GD. Etc etc etc. A modded GD is not only quite a nice razor but it is pretty cool to think about its origins and original price compared to a new Dovo Best or similar.

A GD for a newbie? Not a good idea IMHO. Unless it has already been modded, honed, and test shaved by a knowledgeable person. Just too much work for a newbie to contemplate when he can simply get a whipped dog vintage blade for under $20 that is ready to go. But a GD that is properly tuned up were to turn up in a newbie's hands, well, that's not such a bad thing!

Want to make a razor? Okay... you need a forge. You have to be able to heat tool steel to the point where a magnet doesn't even stick to it any more. You have to be able to cool it slowly. THEN grind it out rough, then heat it again, and quench it, then heat it only to 300 odd degrees and cool it to temper it and then finish grinding etc etc etc. Sometimes the process goes horribly wrong when a blade cracks when it is quenched. So many variables... how long to hold a temp, quenching in oil, water, liquid nitrogen, what? Dunk it in instantly, or tang first, spine first, edge first? quenching liquid cold, hot, room temp? Well, starting with a GD66 means you don't need a forge don't need to anneal or heat treat or temper. You don't need to be a metallurgist. Just grind, sand, polish, rescale, hone, and done. Yeah, you could start out with the steel already heat treated and tempered, such as a worn out file, but hardened steel is called hardened for a reason. Takes a long time to remove any amount of steel. If it gets too hot, you ruin the temper. A Gold Dollar as a blank gives you a pretty good base to work from, with a realistic amount of steel to grind, sand, or polish away. And it is cheap. Hardly costs more than enough bar steel to make a razor. And lately there is a thriving, growing community of Gold Dollar modders to learn from or exchange ideas and methods with, or just show off your latest masterpiece.

 

[eaterofdog]

Razor people have such hugely polarized opinions. Gold Dollars razors and lapping film are two good examples. You have people who swear up and down that they are the best thing since sliced bread. Then you have the other people who rant about how they are a curse from satan. In truth, they both get the job done. They aren't top notch, but they aren't that bad either.

I don't use either one, but I don't turn my nose up at them either.

 

[buca3152]

As was said many times here, they are great shavers. No frills, but if you want to shave, you dont have nothing on a GD. My first razor was a dovo from AOS. Crooked spine, and short at the toe. 1 hour bevel set. For $100? You can get 25 gds for that. I started buying on ebay and you want to talk about junk? Vintage sheffields and solingens. Its a crap shoot. As is the hobby, people like to indulge in 20 brushes, 30 soaps and creams, which is all good and well, but nobody can tell me a gd isnt capable of taking and keeping a fine edge, as well as any razor ( i have 60 vintages from 4/8 to 8/8, and from extra hollow to full wedge).