Every time I try to hone a razor the bevel seems to differ in width. Is it me applying to much pressure? and what and how can I stop doing it. Now I got this cvh mk30 that probably never been used and I want to shave with it. I need to put a killer edge on it.
Can't get the bevel straight and even?
- Thread starter redbreast
- Start date
There are a lot things that can cause uneven bevels. uneven spine. badly ground stabilizer. your hone not being flat.... what are you honing on? how do you hold the razor? Pictures of uneven bevel?
Just to throw it out there, it's not necessarily a bad thing.
above is also true sometimes you just let be uneven and shave with it 
- Thread starter
- #5
Don't think I'll be able to get that close of an photo. This razor I'm honing now has never been honed before, not even been used.
I'm using lapping film, have tried two kinds of glass surfaces and right now I'm using marble that I have lapped. Perhaps not enough.
On this razor cvh mk30, the bevel "fades" out and of at the toe. Just disappears into nothing.
I'm using lapping film, have tried two kinds of glass surfaces and right now I'm using marble that I have lapped. Perhaps not enough.
On this razor cvh mk30, the bevel "fades" out and of at the toe. Just disappears into nothing.
With a razor of that value I suggest you send it out to someone that knows what they're doing rather than ruin the blade.
- Thread starter
- #7
Wish I had, kind of late now.
I have never seen a MK-series razor that is anything then perfectly flat.
What you are descirbing sounds like to much pressure towards the heel.
Try & raise your elbow, oftentimes it drops down, then the pressure goes uneven with it.
Problem is that you now have an unevenly ground blade. Mustn't be a problem, but correcting it does require that some steel goes away.
And it's not necessarily a bad thing, all though in this case I'm sorry to say it is.
What you are descirbing sounds like to much pressure towards the heel.
Try & raise your elbow, oftentimes it drops down, then the pressure goes uneven with it.
Problem is that you now have an unevenly ground blade. Mustn't be a problem, but correcting it does require that some steel goes away.
And it's not necessarily a bad thing, all though in this case I'm sorry to say it is.
To rephrase what I meant above. It's not _always_ a bad thing.
I think honed has it right, you might need more pressure on the toe and less on the heel while honing. Fixing it isn't likely impossible (sans some additional hone wear) but as mentioned you might want to leave it to someone with more experience.
I think honed has it right, you might need more pressure on the toe and less on the heel while honing. Fixing it isn't likely impossible (sans some additional hone wear) but as mentioned you might want to leave it to someone with more experience.
- Thread starter
- #10
Are you back at work these days honed? Maybe I need to stroll down the old town one of these days.
But first I'm gonna shave off of it, I got it shave ready and when you are done I'll probably not gona dare to use it. Still got a bad scar since the last one you honed.
Think you are right about dropping the elbow, keeping it low all through the honing.
But first I'm gonna shave off of it, I got it shave ready and when you are done I'll probably not gona dare to use it. Still got a bad scar since the last one you honed.
Think you are right about dropping the elbow, keeping it low all through the honing.
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HAHA, I love how impressed that hand-surgeon got with the clean cut
No work for me for another 2 weeks. Vacation!
But you're more then welcome to send it over anyways
- Thread starter
- #12
No hurry, its a hht3 so I hang on to until you are back. And I won't let it on the film again, I promise.
It shaved like a dream may I add. I first thought I try it and sell it, but now it's a keeper.
It shaved like a dream may I add. I first thought I try it and sell it, but now it's a keeper.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
Was the CVH used when you bought it? If so, likely the previous owner honed it and developed a slight smile in the edge over time. If you are honing on film or on a nice wide stone, you are not honing "his" way, but are instead honing with the blade flat on the stone, which will tend to straighten the edge out. This of course leaves the nose and sometimes the heel with no significant contact with the honing surface.
I assume you have tested the edge in some manner, such as the HHT (Hanging Hair Test) and are aware of how much good edge you have. Does a proper shaving edge extend to within 1/4" of the toe? If so, not much of an issue. Over the next 20 years or so, edge wear will bring the end of the shaving sharp edge nearer to the toe, eventually reaching it. If you have 1/2" or more of unusable edge at the toe, then your razor needs some work.
Pressure should indeed be light... generally only slightly more than the weight of the razor. But that isn't your problem. In fact, you might not have a problem at all. Do all your edges shave well? That is the objective, after all.
Different razors will show different bevel surface widths and a particular razor could show more on one side than the other, or more at one end of the blade than the other, due to symmetry issues or as the result of uneven spine wear. When one man hones a razor for many years, it is imprinted with his hand, so to speak. Maybe he favors the away stroke over the return stroke. Maybe he is heavy on the heel, or uses a slight rolling x stroke, or torques the blade. Not a big thing at first, but after 20 years or so, you can almost read his razor and see his hand in its honing.
Everything of course depends on the bevel, and the bevel depends on the spine. You can correct a bevel with judicious use of spot taping and pressure adjustment, but if it shaves, then no need.
If it doesn't shave, then this is the way to ensure that you have a working, if not pretty, bevel.
With a sharpie marker, paint the bevel on both sides. Give the razor one or two careful laps on your bevel setter. OBserve where the ink is honed away and where it remains. That tells you a lot about the existing edge. You might see a need to shift the pressure out toward the toe, or back in toward the heel. Keep this in mind as you set the bevel, and re-ink occasionally to check your progress.
When I first set the bevel on a razor that I have never honed before, I always raise a burr on both sides, then remove the burr. To do this, simply hone one side only of the razor until a burr is felt on the other side, for the absolute entire full length of the edge. This may take 30 laps on 12u film or it may take a couple hundred on a 400 grit diamond plate. Anyway, then flip the blade and raise a bevel on the other side, using the same number of laps. If a burr appears along the entire edge on both sides in turn, then remove the burr with regular alternating laps, generally about 40 laps. The bevel is henceforth SET, and you should never ever have to do that again with that particular razor. With a smiling razor, you can either keep going until the edge is straight, or just accept the smile and always use a slight rolling of the blade from heel to toe and maintain the smile. For a frowning razor, the edge must be straightened but that is another topic. Anyway, the sharpie test will help you a lot. The most important tool, to me, is the burr, but the sharpie tells me more about why a burr might be slow in developing. You can also sharpie the spine as an additional diagnostic tool.
I assume you have tested the edge in some manner, such as the HHT (Hanging Hair Test) and are aware of how much good edge you have. Does a proper shaving edge extend to within 1/4" of the toe? If so, not much of an issue. Over the next 20 years or so, edge wear will bring the end of the shaving sharp edge nearer to the toe, eventually reaching it. If you have 1/2" or more of unusable edge at the toe, then your razor needs some work.
Pressure should indeed be light... generally only slightly more than the weight of the razor. But that isn't your problem. In fact, you might not have a problem at all. Do all your edges shave well? That is the objective, after all.
Different razors will show different bevel surface widths and a particular razor could show more on one side than the other, or more at one end of the blade than the other, due to symmetry issues or as the result of uneven spine wear. When one man hones a razor for many years, it is imprinted with his hand, so to speak. Maybe he favors the away stroke over the return stroke. Maybe he is heavy on the heel, or uses a slight rolling x stroke, or torques the blade. Not a big thing at first, but after 20 years or so, you can almost read his razor and see his hand in its honing.
Everything of course depends on the bevel, and the bevel depends on the spine. You can correct a bevel with judicious use of spot taping and pressure adjustment, but if it shaves, then no need.
If it doesn't shave, then this is the way to ensure that you have a working, if not pretty, bevel.
With a sharpie marker, paint the bevel on both sides. Give the razor one or two careful laps on your bevel setter. OBserve where the ink is honed away and where it remains. That tells you a lot about the existing edge. You might see a need to shift the pressure out toward the toe, or back in toward the heel. Keep this in mind as you set the bevel, and re-ink occasionally to check your progress.
When I first set the bevel on a razor that I have never honed before, I always raise a burr on both sides, then remove the burr. To do this, simply hone one side only of the razor until a burr is felt on the other side, for the absolute entire full length of the edge. This may take 30 laps on 12u film or it may take a couple hundred on a 400 grit diamond plate. Anyway, then flip the blade and raise a bevel on the other side, using the same number of laps. If a burr appears along the entire edge on both sides in turn, then remove the burr with regular alternating laps, generally about 40 laps. The bevel is henceforth SET, and you should never ever have to do that again with that particular razor. With a smiling razor, you can either keep going until the edge is straight, or just accept the smile and always use a slight rolling of the blade from heel to toe and maintain the smile. For a frowning razor, the edge must be straightened but that is another topic. Anyway, the sharpie test will help you a lot. The most important tool, to me, is the burr, but the sharpie tells me more about why a burr might be slow in developing. You can also sharpie the spine as an additional diagnostic tool.
- Thread starter
- #14
The razor was not honed before, well not since it left eskilstuna that is. No marks or wear at all, dull and by the looks of it, used only once or twice at most. It was in pristine condition.
I was thinking of just clean, hone it and sell it.
But with a lot of patience I got it to hht3 yesterday, so I hade to try it, now ill probably never part from it.
It is shaving fine, and it really sharp, but as always I don't get my bevels even, and as Jens stated is probably my lack of technique that is faling.I also tend so shake as I do the "pushing away" motion, much less when I hold the stone in the hand but still some. That is the only "problem" with it.
Seemed to work MUCH better when I flipped the marble piece I was honing on so it became narrower. Now approx 3cm instead of 5 before.
I have this problem with all razors I have tried to hone, any tips on how to restore the bevel on them? Or is it not necessary since they are not in the best of shapes.
Sorry for the wall of text.
I was thinking of just clean, hone it and sell it.
But with a lot of patience I got it to hht3 yesterday, so I hade to try it, now ill probably never part from it.
It is shaving fine, and it really sharp, but as always I don't get my bevels even, and as Jens stated is probably my lack of technique that is faling.I also tend so shake as I do the "pushing away" motion, much less when I hold the stone in the hand but still some. That is the only "problem" with it.
Seemed to work MUCH better when I flipped the marble piece I was honing on so it became narrower. Now approx 3cm instead of 5 before.
I have this problem with all razors I have tried to hone, any tips on how to restore the bevel on them? Or is it not necessary since they are not in the best of shapes.
Sorry for the wall of text.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
If they shave nice then no need to correct anything. Just hone normally.
I do suggest that you buy a nice polished marble tile though. Wider IS better, generally, especially with film. Cut the tile about 80 mm wide. And I recommend holding the plate loosely in your hand instead of laying it down. Don't let the plate or your hand rest against your body or any object. It should float in space. The plate and the razor will find their own perfect alignment. Your strokes should become more consistent.
The most valuable tool in your honing kit is your brain. Learn to observe all the minute details and to process them and use the data to continually refine your technique. Think as you hone and as you study your blade. You must at some point become your own teacher.
I do suggest that you buy a nice polished marble tile though. Wider IS better, generally, especially with film. Cut the tile about 80 mm wide. And I recommend holding the plate loosely in your hand instead of laying it down. Don't let the plate or your hand rest against your body or any object. It should float in space. The plate and the razor will find their own perfect alignment. Your strokes should become more consistent.
The most valuable tool in your honing kit is your brain. Learn to observe all the minute details and to process them and use the data to continually refine your technique. Think as you hone and as you study your blade. You must at some point become your own teacher.
