Calling all Massamoto knife experts

[MellowMetal]

What is the diffrence between these Massamoto Chef knives the VG Gyuto, The Massamoto HC Carbon steel, and The Massamoto CT Carbon. Their are minor diffrences and I cant figure it out if you gentleman need links or pictures I could post them. I am looking for an excellent chef knife for my girl friend and landed on one of these three.

 

[YetiDave]

VG refers to VG10 steel, which is stainless and holds an edge for a very long time, however it is brittle so touch ups must be from a water stone or ceramic rod. HC Carbon and CT Carbon are not stainless, and so will go rusty if not cared for properly (and develop a dark patina with use) but like the VG10 will still hold a good edge

 

[MellowMetal]

Hmm ok and if I went down the tojiro road what would be the diffrences between these two metals:

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/todp21wa.html

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/toshitk24wa.html

Both these knives come in 240 and 210mm im just currious on the diffrences in care and what the metals are like

Im clueless when it comes to metal types and what they do.

 

[petr]

Same same with the tojiro. one is stainless, the other not. If she is going to leave it in the sink wet overnight don't even consider the carbon blade.

 

[miamimoe]

The VG-10 is stainless. The HC and CT lines are both carbon, with the CT being harder steel than the HC. Carbon can take a sharp edge, and is generally easier to sharpen than stainless. However, it will stain, rust, etc., if not taken care of, meaning it has to be wiped down frequently with water during use, and care must be taken after use as well. It will probably develop a patina, so it won't have that mirror like finish that stainless does. The Masamotos are very highly regarded knives.

 

[MellowMetal]

I See yeah I ask about Tojiro because I have herd they are quality blade like Massamotos but a little bit more inexpensive since my girl friend is new to Japanese cutlery I thought it would be good for teaching.
but if the only difference in Tojiro is one is easy to rust and the other doesn't I don't know what to do.

 

[YetiDave]

If in doubt I'd go the stainless route

 

[ouch]

If in doubt I'd go the stainless route

This.

If you have any doubt as to whether to buy carbon or stainless, you already answered the question. If you're not willing to be fanatical about drying your knife, get the stainless.

If you want the easiest to maintain entry to a carbon knife, the Hiromoto AS is hard to beat. Only a few millimetres of the carbon core is exposed, and it's a wicked knife.

Best bet? Tojiro DP. The only remaining question is if you want the Japanese style handle (wa-gyuto) or the European style handle, which will be slightly heavier.

 

[lwt210]

I have a carbon Nakiri.

I would lean towards a stainless knife for her. My nakiri will rust very fast if not properly taken care of. I can get an absolute blistering edge with it though freehanding and then stropping it. Takes me very little time to keep it hair popping sharp.

I have let a few folks cut with it. They can't believe how sharp that knife is but they lack the skills to keep it sharp and the dedication to wipe it down after every use. They need to stick with stain resistant steels.

Carbon knives are great but require a tad more love too.

 

[Doc4]

If you have any doubt as to whether to buy carbon or stainless, you already answered the question. If you're not willing to be fanatical about drying your knife, get the stainless.

... my girl friend is new to Japanese cutlery I thought it would be good for teaching.

Many years ago, I took Ouch's advice ... always a good thing to do, it seems ... and bought a couple of Japanese knives as my "first" foray into the field. They still hold up well. (I bought them at Korin, and they were dirt-cheap at the time. Ouch recommended them so often that I started calling them the "Ouch sampler". IIRC, prices soon went way up, and Korin may no longer carry that brand.)

Now, I was anal about my knives. As soon as I was done with them, I'd rinse them in water and dry them off, and put them back in the knife rack. Then my wife started using them. At first, I'd freak out when I'd see them lying in the bottom of the sink with the other dirty dishes waiting to be washed, or shoved blade-down into the little bin where they and all the other cutlery would air-dry.

Soon enough, I got some new knives in a couple B&B group buys ... knives which my wife has never touched, and never will touch. I have accepted that my Ouch Sampler has been sacrificed at the altar of marital bliss. I don't even ask her how she bent the tip of the petty (prying apart frozen meat is my guess.)

Unless and until you know that both you and your girlfriend will be anal with the care of your knives ... stainless is a good bet.

 

[MellowMetal]

If it were a gift for me I would buy the Carbon and sleep with it next to me every night after reading it a bed time story. But its for my girlfriend and she is diligent in her upkeep of her items but I don't know about blades as she has no good cutlery but she did just purchase a complete set of iron clad pots (but these pots don't take much extra special care). Ill buy her a plant if it lives she gets carbon

 

[ChefJohnBoy-ardee]

The Tojiro ITK willl patina fast! I took the faux koriuchi finish off of mine.



I am anal about these guys. No one else touches them and they get sprayed off with sanitizer and wiped off with a paper towel within five seconds of being finished the last cut. If I'm cutting onions, peppers or tomatoes, I will spray it and wipe it down if I have to set my knife down to just clear my cutting board.

Go with the stainless for peace of mind with her. I did get an ex g/f a carbon petty but she was OCD about things and knew she would take care of it.

 

[heirkb]

You should consider posting over on kitchenknifeforums.com and asking for advice. Lots of experienced folks out there. Some brands to check out (that people over there would also be likely to recommend): Yoshihiro, Ikakku, and Suisin Inox Western (from Japanese Knife Imports); Carbonext (from Japanese Chefs Knife).

 

[deruitem]

I agree with everything said thus far. If she is going to take care of it carbon is nice. But.. I have a few VG-10 knives and they get nice and sharp and retain a good edge well and are easy to take care of.

 

[Kazeryu]

Speaking as an owner of two medium-end carbon steel japanese knives, I think some of the other carbon owners in this thread are more than a little bit paranoid. Carbon steel is not going to instantly dissolve into a pile of iron oxide if you look at it with moist eyes.

That being said, I do not disagree with the recommendation of stainless. Carbon steel does need more care, even if the exact amount is frequently exaggerated.

 

[ChefJohnBoy-ardee]

It won't dissolve but it definitely stains and looks like poo. Some steels are faster than others...

 

[Kazeryu]

It won't dissolve but it definitely stains and looks like poo. Some steels are faster than others...

I think people who buy carbon steel knives but really dislike patina are a little bit funny. Especially since patina protects against rust! I mean, I understand that you buy it for the performance, not the looks, but still - wanting to keep a carbon steel knife patina-free would certainly explain some of these posts.

To each their own! The world would be a boring place otherwise.

 

[Alacrity59]

Carbon steel can leave some noticeable taste even with knives having patina. I notice it when slicing cheese in particular. With onions I can see the reaction with the slices quickly yellowing. That's ok if I'm cooking the onions but not great for salads.

 

[Acmemfg]

Top-Tojiro DP Gyuto (VG10)
Bottom-Tojiro ITK Santoku (White Steel-a high carbon Japanese steel)

Both are great. These have been regularly used in a commercial kitchen setting as well as at home.

The ITK can take a VERY sharp edge and although it fades a bit faster thaan a VG 10 blade it touches up remarkably fast. It will take a patina but at least mine has not compromised anything I prepare with it. Foods like onions, shallots, etc. will necessitate you wipe this blade often during use. It is also kinda brittle and can chip sometimes if used to chop stuff. Again, the chips (if they do occur) go away quickly when re-sharpened.

The DP is heavier and required a tad more attention when sharpening. Once however, an edge is put on a VG10 blade like this, it is every bit as keen as the White Steel but lasts longer by a significant margin. I have used both a Shun steel and DMT Ceramic hone on both these. Probably the ceramic rod works a bit better on the VG10 and the Shun steel agrees better on the White Steel.

One issue to consider (at least with these) is cost. You can buy 2 of the ITKs for the price of that 270mm DP Gyuto.

Which is better?? Notice I own both.......................

 

[ChefJohnBoy-ardee]

I think people who buy carbon steel knives but really dislike patina are a little bit funny. Especially since patina protects against rust! I mean, I understand that you buy it for the performance, not the looks, but still - wanting to keep a carbon steel knife patina-free would certainly explain some of these posts.

To each their own! The world would be a boring place otherwise.

I'm all about the patina. I force patina'd my petty...