Arkansas?

[bluefoxicy]

I've seen Arkansas natural hones on ebay.

I have a C12k and like it better than my Norton 4k/8k... it's damn hard, whereas the synthetics aren't.

Are these similar to the C12k, but less fine? Like, are they rock-hard stones rather than a soft abrasive clay blob?

What's the grit equivalent on these, roughly? I'm seeing "Medium/Fine grit" but I want to know is that like 4k-8k, 8k-10k, what?

 

[GsSixgun]

Hint:

Naturals cannot be compared grit wise to Synthetics in fact the one you are calling a C12k isn't really 12k..

I know I am splitting hairs, but that is after all what we do...

In all honesty this is what steers me away from most naturals, my OCD tells me I HAVE to know the grit, not knowing the grit or that the grit can change between two stone of the same type, bugs me to no end... The fact that "your" Natural stone might work one way, but if I try and buy the same stone it might work differently bugs me too...Each type of stone has it's own cutting characteristics these should be matched to your personal wants and needs... On the naturals you pretty much have to try them and see if they work for you and then try them again because you might have one that doesn't perform like mine does ....

 

[charismata]

I've seen Arkansas natural hones on ebay.

I have a C12k and like it better than my Norton 4k/8k... it's damn hard, whereas the synthetics aren't.

Are these similar to the C12k, but less fine? Like, are they rock-hard stones rather than a soft abrasive clay blob?

What's the grit equivalent on these, roughly? I'm seeing "Medium/Fine grit" but I want to know is that like 4k-8k, 8k-10k, what?

IMO the very hardest hones available are synthetics. It would be hard to beat a diamond nickel plate in terms of hardness. Based on your next question, I think you were probably inferring "barber hones" when you mentioned synthetics.

As far as Arkansas stones go, I can't really comment because I don't use them. I've never considered them because they aren't rated by grit. Most of them that I see day to day are coarser grades of stones. I know the translucent arkansas stones are finer stones and should be vary hard. I've just never had any interest. I would prefer to know what I'm using rather than guessing.

 

[mparker762]

I've seen Arkansas natural hones on ebay.

I have a C12k and like it better than my Norton 4k/8k... it's damn hard, whereas the synthetics aren't.

Are these similar to the C12k, but less fine? Like, are they rock-hard stones rather than a soft abrasive clay blob?

What's the grit equivalent on these, roughly? I'm seeing "Medium/Fine grit" but I want to know is that like 4k-8k, 8k-10k, what?

They're extremely hard. Hard enough that lapping them will make you question your sanity. But you only have to lap them once...

As for grit, all arkansas stones have the same basic abrasive particle (quartz) in them that is supposedly around 600-800 grit, but I've also seen articles claiming 1-5 micron. The difference between the lower grade white stones and the higher grade black and translucents is the ratio of binder to abrasive - paradoxically the more abrasive in the stone the finer it hones, because the tighter packing means there's less room for the abrasives to get a good bite on the steel.

Because the binder and abrasive have different densities, whatever the labelling "white", "hard white", "black", "translucent", "pink translucent" etc, their honing qualities are primarily determined by their density (and for straight razors their lack of inclusions or other defects); any color specification is for marketing and esthetic purposes - pink translucents are quite beautiful and fairly rare and therefore command a premium over the standard gray/white translucent, but won't hone any better assuming the densities are the same.

If you call one of the better arkansas stone retailers (Halls Pro Edge, Dan's Whetstone, etc) and explain to them that you want it for straight razors you can get them to pick you a particularly high-density stone for a small premium.

Despite their low grit ratings a good quality translucent or black arkansas stone will put a really excellent edge on a razor; however, all arkansas stones are slow cutters because of the spherical shape of the abrasive particles, and a really fine hone will cut even slower despite having much more abrasive in it. Additionally, because the abrasives are not continually released from the binder the way they are in a waterstone, the abrasive in an arkansas stone will wear over time, becoming slower and finer as the spherical particles become flattened, so that the surface of the hone becomes more like a cobblestone road than a bed of boulders. Because of this, it is a mistake to evaluate an arkansas stone until it has had a fair amount of use and had a chance to break in properly.

 

[Doc4]

I know I am splitting hairs, but that is after all what we do...

Well, no ... it isn't what we do. What we do is cut hairs at roughly right angles (or more like 45 degrees, depending on how the hair comes out of your face) by drawing the razor blade across the face thus slicing off whatever amound of hair actually is foolish enough to protrude from the face. Actually splitting the hairs would involve trying to hit the hair ends dead on, dividing the hair folicle in two roughly equal pieces without actually removing them from the face. Now, I won't speculate on how hard it would be to accurately hit the folicle end when the folicle is covered with lather, but I do think it would be the height of foolishness to try this as the likelihood of consistently being able to stop the razor blade before it hits your face with enough force to cause damage is pretty slim.

I know I am nit-picking, but that is after all what we do.

 

[mparker762]

I know I am nit-picking, but that is after all what we do.

Well, no ... it isn't what we do. At least not what I do. What I do is cut hairs at roughly right angles (or more like 45 degrees, depending on how the individual hairs comes out of my face) by drawing the razor blade across the face thus slicing off whatever amount of hair actually is foolish enough to protrude from the face. Actually picking the nits would would involve catching them from a nit-infested hooker, then jabbing at my face with a pair of tweezers while dodging the gunfire from my very p*ssed off wife.

Now, I won't speculate on how hard it would be to accurately pick the nits while dodging 9mm bullets, and am certainly not going to attempt it while they're covered with lather (nits, not the bullets), but I do think it would be the height of foolishness to try this as the likelihood of consistently being able to pick the nits without the bullets hitting you with enough force to cause damage is pretty slim.

Not that I'm nit-picking, because that is after all what not I do.

 

[Doc4]

 

[danjared]

I am lapping a 6"x2"x1/2" translucent right and am certainly questioning my sanity. I'm also wondering what exactly I'm going to do once I get past the DMT D8E phase (currently finishing up on a D8XX). Suggestions welcome.

They're extremely hard. Hard enough that lapping them will make you question your sanity. But you only have to lap them once...

 

[mparker762]

I am lapping a 6"x2"x1/2" translucent right and am certainly questioning my sanity. I'm also wondering what exactly I'm going to do once I get past the DMT D8E phase (currently finishing up on a D8XX). Suggestions welcome.

Maybe follow it up with 1000 then 2000 grit wet/dry if you've got it. It'll need breaking in anyway to get those quartz balls nice and smoothed, so once it's flat you may as well start using it. Just be aware that it'll be a bit before it starts really performing up to its potential.

What I do is use some of the shapton lapping powder that they sell for their high-grit hones, and make a slurry with that and lap the surface against a soft white arkansas or the back side of my spyderco UF.