Any Audiophiles?

[joel]

I'm looking at purchasing my first turntable setup and want to go with something I won't soon tire of. It's for the kitchen area, not a dedicated listening room, so i'm not wanting to go too extreme - merely dip my toe in.

For turn tables i'm looking at a Music Hall 7.1, a JA Michell RB 250 or a clearaudio concept.

For amps: Cambridge Audio Azur 851A, Rega Brio-R, Creek Destiny 2 Integrated Amp and the Rogue Audio Cronus.

For speakers i'm considering: Epos Elan 35, Rega RS5, Mordaunt-Short Mezzo 8 and totem acoustics arro.

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Any recommendations among the gear above, or anything else I should be considering? [/FONT]

 

[professorchaos]

Don't know the acoustics of your room or how you will be listening, however, Audio Research amp(s) and B&W speakers are as good as it gets IMHO at a fairly reasonable price range.

Nice that you are getting a turntable. Coupled with old vinyl, the sound can be so much richer and detailed.

 

[letterk]

15 years ago I could have helped you. I'm just about to retire the last piece of my previously prized setup as the sub is old and cranky. Sadly, I haven't followed audio equipment in years. It will be fun to watch this thread.

 

[DoubleB123]

I'm definitely not an audiophile but I do have a pair of Creative Aurvana Live headphones which are a rebrand of Denon D1001s. I got them for about $60 barely used and for that price they are very nice.

 

[El Mysterioso]

Don't know the acoustics of your room or how you will be listening, however, Audio Research amp(s) and B&W speakers are as good as it gets IMHO at a fairly reasonable price range.

+1 on the Bowers and Wilkins speakers. Marantz makes some great turntables. If money is no object, McIntosh amps still use tube circuitry and are superior to just about anything I have ever heard. Their build quality is also unsurpassed.

 

[Greybeard]

I'm a lapsed audiophile. Since I sold my house and moved into a condo, I have gotten away from cycling audio equipment. I'm down to 2 systems from my previous 5 and the room acoustics (and neighbors' musical tastes) are far from optimal. I still torture myself from time to time by reading reviews, browsing audio forums, shops and talking to some friends who are still active in the hobby.

That's one hell of a kitchen system you're looking at. You must have a huge kitchen with some of the equipment you're considering. With all the hard, reflective surfaces and restrictions on speaker placement, it might be limiting.

First off, is this the start of your journey down the rabbit hole or do you think this might remain just a casual pursuit?

Almost every audio component has some compromise or weakness even if it is minor. What type of music do you mostly listen to? Do you prefer a bright sound, warm sound, bass emphasis, detail, vocals, classical, techno, etc.? Where are you going to place your speakers? How loud do you plan to listen?

I'm assuming that the Michell is a TecnoDec with a tweaked Rega RB250 tonearm. To your list you could add a VPI Scout.
The Michell and VPI are somewhat upgradeable, the Clearaudio to a lesser extent and the Music Hall not really. There's not much sound/quality difference between the tables. The differences will come from the tonearms and the phono cartridges.
You're not talking major differences, but there are differences in weight of presentation, bass line, sound stage, air, treble emphasis, etc.
The Music Hall and Clearaudio come with cartridges, the Michell and the VPI do not. This would be an added expense, but allows you to purchase a better cartridge than the Music Hall's and Clearaudio's to start. The RB250 and JMW 9 (on the VPI) are the the better tonearms, but with a different presentation and different cartridge matching requirements.
Unless you have experience setting up a turntable, make sure that whomever you purchase it from sets it up for you.

You should consider your amp and speakers as a combo purchase. You don't want a bright amp with bright speakers. Speakers also have different power requirements to sound ideal, e.g. the Epos speakers won't work properly with the Rogue without a custom amp tweak. The Rega amp is a good match to the Rega speakers but not good with the Mordaunt-Short. The Regas are good speakers, but a little "polite" and mid-range oriented. I like the Totem Arros. They're more flexible than the others as far as room placement. The only downside is that the small woofer doesn't give you the air moving feel that a larger woofer moving bigger volume can. They do have surprisingly deep bass and impact. They are very "fast" and neutral with good imaging and space around the instruments. I dislike the Mordaunt-Short. They need a lot of room, power and the bass is a little sloppy. They go earth-shakingly loud, though. Not familiar with the Epos although I've heard the Epics. I also second B&W speakers, possibly 683 since you can tune the bass to suit your preferences and room placement. Any decent amp will drive them.
You should try to listen to the speakers on your short list in a showroom listening room (if possible). Bring some records or cds that you are familiar with. Go to an audio specialty shop, not home theater or chain store. Talk to a consultant about your room and your listening preferences.
After you settle on your speakers you could get a compatible amplifier. I can understand picking the amp before the speakers, but only if you have a good idea of what you want and lots of listening experience. Otherwise you may be cycling speakers and phono cartridges to get the sound you want. Some amps have better phono stages (for your turntable) than others. The good news is, that if you really like an amp without a phono stage or with a crappy one, you can buy a good outboard phono stage for not too much. The Rega and Cambridge have decent phono stages, the Creek should but I haven't heard it and I wasn't impressed with the Rogue's. Recessed top end and a little grainy.

 

[SiBurning]

You have to listen to know. The only thing I can do is describe my system for comparison, since it's similar to some things you're considering.

I have a Pro-Ject Debut / Creek 5350se / Epos M5 + m-sub. Pro-Ject is like a low end Music Hall turntable. (Compare the pictures.) Epos has the British sound, with a slight high-band presence (typically a bump in the 2-3kHz area) and rolled off highs, which is supposedly designed for rooms with lots of hard surfaces, so it might work out better for you than in my living room. Epos is made by Creek, and they're what the Creek amps are tuned to, so that's a natural match. The Creek preamp (I have the add-on board for a moving magnet cartridge) has a gritty Grado-like sound. It interacts nicely with the cheap Ortofon cartridge that was preinstalled. I was never a fan of Ortofon, preferring something with more kick, but its smoothness works well with this preamp, smoothing out some of the graininess (well, that's putting the cart[ridge] before the horse, but you should get the idea), though I sometime long for a (defunct) Shure or something else with a bite, which is more immune to graininess. (If that doesn't make sense--and it doesn't to me--then let's say the pre-amp is a bit polite, but not so much as the Ortofon.) I've compared the pre-amp against my 1970s Kenwood and they're surprisingly similar overall, with the Creek being more refined with no comparative politeness, and the Kenwood sound isn't polite. Overall, the system is very transparent, musical, engaging, and energetic, but the amp may be too polite for some folks, and the speakers have the typical British sound, though even that is done politely. Then again, polite may be a good thing in a a room with a lot of hard reflective surfaces.

Just another comment on the politeness...

Maybe I don't know what polite means, but I think it's often related to speed. Polite never hits you with a gust of wind on a sudden musical peak. But this system seems a lot more natural to live music than some of the faster systems I've heard. With this system, I get the sense of the peak building, rather than hitting me in the chest. It's not very natural to be hit with a harsh gust unless you're talking about studio music. Any natural instrument takes time to build the peak, perhaps some percussion instruments aside. Cymbals, for example, take time to reach that peak. So does almost any drum, if you ask me. Yeah, there are faster systems, and they usually sound unnatural to me. If they're faster on the upside of the peak, they lose something in tracking the rest of it. So give me polite, because that's what real instruments sound like to me. If the Creek is polite, it's definitely not slow. Let's say it's better suited to a mix of classical, jazz, and rock, but not the best choice for hard stuff like rock, dance, etc. if you need that chest pounding and want your ears to hurt on the snare drum's back beat.

 

[Jawaburger]

I'm looking at purchasing my first turntable setup and want to go with something I won't soon tire of. It's for the kitchen area, not a dedicated listening room, so i'm not wanting to go too extreme - merely dip my toe in.

For turn tables i'm looking at a Music Hall 7.1, a JA Michell RB 250 or a clearaudio concept.

For amps: Cambridge Audio Azur 851A, Rega Brio-R, Creek Destiny 2 Integrated Amp and the Rogue Audio Cronus.

For speakers i'm considering: Epos Elan 35, Rega RS5, Mordaunt-Short Mezzo 8 and totem acoustics arro.

Any recommendations among the gear above, or anything else I should be considering?

I am surprised you are looking at Rega speakers and integrated amps but not their turntables. The Rega P3 is one of the best turntables, IMHO, in its price range. The P2 or RP1 are also great if the P3 is a little too pricey for you.

I don't recall if the Cambridge Audio integrated amp has a phono amp built in, so you may need to look into an outboard phono amp. Of course the Rega Brio has a built in phono amp. Both Cambridge Audio and Rega make a fine phono amp. Exposure makes some great integrated amps, and separates if you have a few extra dollars. I would definitely look into them if you can. They are similarly priced with the Cambridge Audio.

Speakers, more than the other components, really need to be listened to before you can determine which ones are best for you. I hope you have a stereo store somewhere around you that you can actually listen to these things. I am a big fan of Dynaudio speakers, which seem to have speakers in similar price ranges to the ones you have listed. I have only heard the Rega speakers, which sounded pretty good to me, so I can't comment on the other ones you have listed.

Good luck in your search. It is just as easy to get carried away with audio gear as it is with shaving gear . . . if I just try this one more speaker, my system will be perfect! Also, speaker cables and interconnects are easy to get carried away with. They can make a difference (not so much with digital cables). I usually recommend getting something in the middle range, but no matter what you decide, make sure you allow for it in your budget. I am a big Nordost fan myself. I worked in a high-end audio/video store for 7 years so I have knowledge of a number of products. Let me know if you have any questions.

 

[Barbiere di Figaro]

I will surely follow this thread. I don't have a comparable setup (not even a turntable) but recently met a technician who was able to make my old pre / power amps from Arcam better and let them shine again. He is busy producing his own amplifiers, with separate dedicated audiophile components for every part. (He is capable of writing diagrams and has them made as he calculates them with all components, truly amazing!)

I would like to have small power-amplifiers for 6 or 7 speakers in a home cinema system that also suits a very good stereo setup.

Good luck on your quest for your setup!

Eric

 

[duotone]

I would say that you need to find stockists so you can hear these items in your list and bring a variety of music you are most familiar with so you can see how it sounds.

Use the hi-fi magazines/websites only as a guide as to what is available and let your ears be the real judge.

Don't rush into buying something, because the salesman says its the last one in stock or its a "good deal" etc.

 

[brucered]

for a 1st TT setup, i wouldn't go with a $1200+ musichall.

heck, nice german DUAL tables can be had for $50 on kijiji or craiglist and will sound as good or better and give a nice vintage look and spend the extra money on a nice cartridge and need and a shwack of vinyl

i have a Technics SL-1200MK2 and Dual...the Dual sees 95% of the use, it's semi auto, so very kid, wife and family friendly.

the 1200 is a better build table, fully servicable, customizable, upgradeable and rock solid. it was $300 near new, on a local used site.

in my 2 TT setups, i run 2 speakers, as that is what Vinyl was meant to be played on. i always turn off the noise effects, and 5.1.

Sorry, can't help with your choices, as they are well above my price range