A Timeless Summer - A Comparative Assessment of Timeless Razors

[JAHE]

I love the Ti, but, I'm thinking I may have missed out by getting the + and ++ models, rather than the ++ and +++. I wonder how the +++ is compared to the ++?

I own a Ti ++ and a AL13 +++. But they are both V1, so reportadly a tad milder than the V2 sibblings.

However, the shaves with both V1 are not like day and night experiences. The differences are rather subtle, perhaps like a setting 5 on a Slim vs a setting 4.
I might be off with the precise setting numbers mentioned, but you get the idea.

I would not call the +++ aggressive by any means since it doesn't tend to bite or provides. The level of bladefeel provided isn't scary, not at all.

I get perfect shaves with my copies every single time. It feels like cheating, since it so easy. FWIW, the ++ gets the nod when I have an important business meeting coming up - or if I'm just in a hurry.

Cheers!

 

[BigAlVista]

I own a Ti ++ and a AL13 +++. But they are both V1, so reportadly a tad milder than the V2 sibblings.

However, the shaves with both V1 are not like day and night experiences. The differences are rather subtle, perhaps like a setting 5 on a Slim vs a setting 4.
I might be off with the precise setting numbers mentioned, but you get the idea.

I would not call the +++ aggressive by any means since it doesn't tend to bite or provides. The level of bladefeel provided isn't scary, not at all.

I get perfect shaves with my copies every single time. It feels like cheating, since it so easy. FWIW, the ++ gets the nod when I have an important business meeting coming up - or if I'm just in a hurry.

Cheers!

Thank you! Seems like I shouldn't have any FOMO about the +++.

You just saved me about $270!

 

[BigAlVista]

Fantastic comparison report!!

Thanks, Guido.

After posting it, I felt a bit guilty - That I'd taken a bit of a shortcut by not trying the two razors with a milder blade. Accordingly, I decided to re-open my comparison of these 2 razors, supplanting the Feathers with Rapira Platinum Luxe's. I really like the Rapira blades - IMHO, they are an underappreciated blade in this forum. I find them similar in many ways to the Wizamet Super Iriidium's - Smooth and mild.

In conducting the test this morning, I gave due consideration to confirmation bias and was careful to use good form with both razors; the right amount of pressure, appropriate shaving angle, keeping the face moist, maintaining good face contact, etc. When I finished the shave, both sides felt pretty similar, so I think I did the needful - at least relative to 'getting the best' out of both razors.

5 hours later, I'm sitting at my desk and I'm feeling a thin layer of stubble on the side I shaved with the Legacy. Before making any conclusions, I'll do a few more days with these razors and blades. Here are today's results:

 

[BigAlVista]

During my testing, I have been making a point of swapping the blade after one or two shaves in case there is an issue with one of the blades. I believe my first shaves with the Rapira's demonstrated just such issue. When the Legacy scored so low relative to closeness yesterday, I thought something might be off. Noting that 4 minutes of face time would remove some of that blade's coating, I swapped blades between the two razors before today's shave. Had there been no effect caused by the blade, I would have expected a similar set of results today as yesterday for each razor. Had there been an issue caused by differentials in grind, I would have expected that the razors results would be flipped. Had there been an issue related to coating, I would have expected the results to flip, but the differential in closeness might be reduced (because of greater relative wear to the over-coated bladed). The last possibility was what I observed. Based on today's shave, it's clear to me that one can get a nice close shave on the Legacy with a mild blade.

I would also note that over the past week and a half, the Timeless seems a little bit more efficient and a little bit more aggressive. Chasing a BBS shave today definitely left me with some soreness that lasted an hour or so; the bit of soreness I felt from the Legacy disappeared in minutes.

I wonder what a quick shave will be like with the Rapira? We'll find out tomorrow. I'm hoping the blade coatings have equalized a bit. Noting that I've already done a good bit of testing with the Timeless, I'm going to leave the questionable blade in there and keep the more reliable one in the Legacy

 

[Guido75]

I have used a Rapira blade only once and that was in the Ti95 (with scalloped baseplate and smooth cap). That was a seriously excellent shave! Looking forward to your input Mark!

Guido

 

[BigAlVista]

I think I have enough information to write up my conclusions on the Timeless Ti 95 vs the Chiseled Face Legacy. I've updated my conclusions from last week based on the incremental data from my shaves with the Rapira Platinum Luxe. I would note that there is concurrent blade testing going on at Blade Evaluations and the Rapira PL has been evaluated as a moderately sharp blade (which matches to my observations). I would add that the Rapira PL is also a smooth shave. If I were to test it side by side against a recently manufactured Wizamet, I doubt I would be able to tell the difference.

In terms of how they shave:

1. Despite how different they are in design and construction, they both are efficient razors capable of what I would call a 12-hour shave, provided you use a sharp blade. Even with a mild blade, one can get a solid 10+ hour shave out of both.
2. Following the appropriate technique for each (Neutral to moderately steep angle for the Timeless; riding the cap on the Legacy), They are surprisingly similar relative to efficiency and aggression. This holds true, even with materially different blades.
3. Though the weight and balance between them is different in a couple of ways, the handles for both are 'grippy' and make them both easy to control and maneuver.
4. The Timeless is a bit more efficient, and a wee bit more aggressive. The FIS for a given amount of razor-on-skin time was pretty close between them whether using the Feather Hi-Stainless or the Rapira PL. I would note that the Timeless impact tended to stack. While any one shave with the timeless was only marginally more aggressive than with the Legacy, across multiple days with the Timeless, there was some stacking effect.
5. The Legacy reminds me of the Athena - another great heavy razor. These two deserve a head-to-head contest with a couple of blades across the sharpness spectrum.

Use cases for each:

1. I like a heavy razor that does the work for me: Legacy all the way. Really well engineered and the weight does most of the work provided you get the shaving angle right.
2. I want a light and nimble razor: Legacy wins. Though the Timeless is lighter than the legacy, I wouldn't call it nimble. Despite the weight of the legacy, I found it easier to get into tighter places with it and the handle made maneuvering the razor a snap. Ron from Chiseled Face tells me there are not many "Industrial" style handles left and he is not making more of them. He's already out of the Ti Industrial handles. If you want a Brass Legacy, I would encourage you to try and get that handle. If not that, get the "Imperial" handle. The Birdcage handle is beautiful, but it does not have the horizontal cuts that give the Imperial and Industrial handles so effective.
3. I want a hassle-free shave: The Timeless takes the win here. It's much more tolerant of imprecise technique and gave me repeatedly smooth shaves with the Feather blade
4. I want an efficient daily driver: The Legacy gets the win for this use case. While one can use either razor on a daily basis, it's easier to overdo it with the Timeless. After two days of chasing a BBS shave with the Timeless, my face was sorer than with the Legacy.
5. There can be only one: Consultants response: It depends. I struggle with this one because of the significant differences in design. Both are wonderful razors, beautifully made. I'd have to say that the Timeless is a bit more intricately designed overall and is a bit more efficient than the Legacy. In addition, there are a wide range of both cosmetic and functional options for the Timeless that don't exist in practice for the Brass Legacy (i.e. lots of finish styles, the ability to swap caps and handles of different styles and materials from the same vendor). It's not that the Brass version of the Legacy is distinctly unique in terms of design relative to the Ti and Aluminum versions, but that outside of getting a Ti legacy, there just aren't any readily available options for the Brass since Chiseled face stopped selling razor components. My Timeless is a bit of a Franken razor (or as Kim @Phoenixkh likes to call it, a "Hybrid") with a Bronze Cap and a Bronze stand. Chiseled face doesn't yet make a stand (though a really beautiful aluminum one is in the works). Though I really like both of them, If I had to pick between them (noting that I have other razors in my den) it would probably be the Timeless based on options, efficiency and aesthetics. However, If I could only have one razor in my den -at all- and my choices were limited to these two razors, I'd probably go with the Legacy. It's efficient and easier to rely on day after day.

Final results:

 

[Flanders]

I hope you know that not only does it quietly please me greatly that you are using my FIS system, but that you are actually using it as written. It's very gratifying that something that I put a lot of thought, and several revisions, into is useful to somebody. I am not deluded enough to think that all my ideas are winners, but this one was several years in the making. I will note that my rearranged scoring system is matching up with yours nicely, as intended. I am sure I would like the Legacy and was very close to buying one when they came out, but it's really too mild for me like the Athena. I am happy enough with what I have and the next razor won't be a DE anyway.

 

[BigAlVista]

Hats off to you, sir. I use the system because it's good. I also find it's easy to recalibrate my observations against. I also believe that it's good for everyone to give credit where due!

As to the Legacy, yes, it's much like the Athena. Like the Athena, when I put a Feather, BIC or Perma-Sharp in it, I can easily get a smooth "12-hour shave" (composite score between 93 and 95) without undue effort. Noting the latest blade test results, I'll need to try one of my AccuTek Lab Blues or GSBS in it.

Another day...

 

[LRod]

Anyone know what's going on with Timeless' scratch & dent section?
They've only had bronze parts available for some time.
They used to have lots of stainless parts too!
I wonder if sales are down where they're not getting that many returns?

 

[Guido75]

I wonder if sales are down where they're not getting that many returns?

Or everyone is extremely satisfied with their purchase!

 

[LRod]

Or everyone is extremely satisfied with their purchase!

LOL, I thought about that too but found that highly improbable since it's impossible to please everyone.

 

[Phoenixkh]

I spent a fair amount of money with them over the past two months and haven’t returned anything. Sorry. <eg>

 

[LRod]

I spent a fair amount of money with them over the past two months and haven’t returned anything. Sorry. <eg>

I think the last thing I ever returned was the Blackland Sabre Level 1 that I believe was defective somehow.
I feel weird using something and returning it because I don't like it.
It may sound dumb, but I feel like I'm burdening them even if they do have a return policy, LOL!!
I feel more comfortable just reselling it!
And not many of these shaving manufactures have return policies anyways!

 

[BigAlVista]

I think the last thing I ever returned was the Blackland Sabre Level 1 that I believe was defective somehow.
I feel weird using something and returning it because I don't like it.
It may sound dumb, but I feel like I'm burdening them even if they do have a return policy, LOL!!
I feel more comfortable just reselling it!
And not many of these shaving manufactures have return policies anyways!

I have a bunch of scratch and dent stuff. It's all been excellent. The only piece I bought that was not perfect was a bronze cap that had a tiny speck of impurity embedded in the bronze, which washed out leaving a tiny pit in the metal. Would never have known, had I not been closely looking under a magnifying glass

 

[LRod]

I have a bunch of scratch and dent stuff. It's all been excellent. The only piece I bought that was not perfect was a bronze cap that had a tiny speck of impurity embedded in the bronze, which washed out leaving a tiny pit in the metal. Would never have known, had I not been closely looking under a magnifying glass

That's weird that you got a piece like that but I guess it's always possible.
I've bought both bronze & stainless parts from the Timeless scratch & dent and have never even seen a scratch or a dent!
I figure that they're just mostly returns (not factory seconds) from customers that tried them out a couple of times and didn't like it. And I'm sure most of us really take good care of our razors so the expectation is for them to be in excellent condition. That's been my experience anyways!

 

[BigAlVista]

That's weird that you got a piece like that but I guess it's always possible.
I've bought both bronze & stainless parts from the Timeless scratch & dent and have never even seen a scratch or a dent!
I figure that they're just mostly returns (not factory seconds) from customers that tried them out a couple of times and didn't like it. And I'm sure most of us really take good care of our razors so the expectation is for them to be in excellent condition. That's been my experience anyways!

Honestly, it's fine. I've probably saved over $150 USD buying thise scratch and dent items and yes, they were all perfect, but for one small pit in one cap:

 

[ButterfaceX]

Day 2 with the Chiseled Face Legacy against the Timeless Ti 95 SC

Both razors performed almost identically. Keeping the face time under 9 minutes and 30 seconds with either razor loaded with a Feather Hi-Stainless can yield an outstanding 12-hour shave with a reasonable FIS of 4. While after almost 10 hours, I'm getting just a touch of very light stubble with both, the amount is the same on either side of my face and limited to what I would call my "problem areas", and ATG only.

I would note that the Chiseled face appears to be a bit more rigid with regard to shaving angles than the Timeless. When riding the cap and applying a bit of pressure to the reasonably heavy, all-brass Legacy, the results are excellent. The Timeless seems to be a bit more forgiving relative to the angle and is lighter. Given the need for a bit of pressure on the brass Legacy, I don't think I would choose the Ti version over the brass. The weight of the brass Legacy, combined with the grippy "Industrial" brass handle is close to perfect, at least for me. I had hesitated to pull the trigger on the Legacy - I'm glad I did.

Needless to say, I am very much enjoying this side-by-side evaluation!

The results:

View attachment 1883951

Does the C.F. Legacy razors use a standard thread (head + handle) ?

 

[BigAlVista]

Does the C.F. Legacy razors use a standard thread (head + handle) ?

They do. M5

 

[BigAlVista]

Timeless TI OC 68 SC vs Blackbird TI Lite

These two Titanium razors target those in search of an efficient and smooth daily driver. Noting that apples-to-apples the Blackbird with stand is almost $250 more, is the differential worth it?

Noting that these are relatively mild, I decided to start my testing with the sharp AccuTek Personna Comfort Coated blades. Paying homage to ARKO! August, I'll be doing my comparison shaves with Catie's Bubbles Retriet with sections of Arko embedded:

Here are my results for the first two shaves. Note that I swapped the blades between the first and second shaves:

 

[Guido75]

Great job Mark! Following with interest to see what you final verdict will be. I definitely like your evaluation reports!

Thanks!

Guido