A comparison between a broken in boar and various badgers.... anyone?

[milesandcoltrane]

Hi Gents,

As the title states, my question is how does a broken in boar compare in terms of softness and backbone to the different varieties of badger available?

After reading so much material on the different badger brushes available and how shavers describe softness and backbone - I'm wondering how this relates to someone who has only used boar brushes (I'm one of them).

When I started out a few years ago, I didn't use my boar brush much (just water and blade most of the time). But now that I've returned to it with a vengeance, I've made sure to break in my boar adequately.

I've been using this new Omega boar (23mm knot, 50mm loft) every day for the past 2-3 months. Without fail after each shave I take a hair dryer to it, and when I have some free time I just mash it up in my palm to break it in even more.

So far I've got a decent amount of split ends and the brush has softened up quite a fair bit. But I still find the tips a little too prickly, and the backbone being too springy (the springiness feels a tad too 'fake' and not 'natural' for lack of a better word). When I mash it down it still feels a little too enthusiastic in springing back to its original position.

 

[mblakele]

I have a few of both: what's listed on my wiki page, plus the Semogue Owners Club. I like them all.

For me the main difference isn't softness or backbone: at the high end both qualities are there. But there's a value factor, since the high end for badger starts at over $50, and the high end for boar stops around $50. But consider heat retention and the feeling of density, too. Boars don't really do either, even though the SOC comes close on density. Also think about value for money. If you don't place a large premium on heat retention and luxurious density, then a badger probably isn't a good value for you. If you enjoy that sort of thing, and have over $50 to spend, then a badger may suit you.

 

[Drubbing]

I'll play.

I have a T&H Silvertip 1/2 and a Semogue 620 and SOC. THe Silvertip feel like a pillow full of lather, the boars like very soft brushes, but the T&H feel positively floppy in comparison.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Apples to oranges. They lather differently and feel different.

 

[Suzuki]

Apples to oranges. They lather differently and feel different.

Agree 100% - totally different experiences.

Also, the variation in badger hair from one brush to the next - even between similar grades offered by different manufacturers makes this a very difficult, if not impossible comparison.

That being said, my experience is that a broken boar of any quality is generally softer at the tips than a pure badger brush. After that, it really depends - for example, the tips on my 2-band Tulip have a bit more bite than my well-used boars - but are in no way harsh or scratchy. On the other hand, I find the tips on my B&B Essential to be softer (although its pretty close).

In any event, I find that my better badgers hold more water than my boar brushes - but that a dip of the tips of the boar brush between passes is all it takes to deal with this issue.

 

[milesandcoltrane]

Darn I was thinking of getting a badger cuz I find my boar too prickly. Granted its gotten a whole lot softer since I used first in stock form, but there are still those prickly strands that really make themselves known in the 2nd and 3rd pass onwards.

The differing qualities between badgers from different manufacturers, also makes it a great deal harder like one of you said.

From all that I've been reading about boars, I'm really tempted to get something like the SOC. But I've already got a semi-decent boar and really wanna give badgers a shot.

Another thing I notice is that the softer the tips feel on the face the less backbone a brush has. Is this true all the time? It seems like its a compromise and if one were to want both softness and backbone in a badger one would have to spend and go with a 2 band at least or something like the Rooney Finest brushes.

 

[mblakele]

Broadly yes, but a shorter loft can also improve backbone. I have a Penworks STR1-22 that was marginal for face-lathering (55-mm loft, I think?). Adding a couple of o-rings effectively shortened the loft, and now it's more fun to use. If o-rings seem too permanent, try a velcro cable-tie strip.

 

[tachi1247]

Another thing I notice is that the softer the tips feel on the face the less backbone a brush has. Is this true all the time? It seems like its a compromise and if one were to want both softness and backbone in a badger one would have to spend and go with a 2 band at least or something like the Rooney Finest brushes.

Shavemac D01 is supposed to have excellent back bone and very soft tips. I'm sure a big part of this is the hair, but density will go a long way to providing backbone in a brush. A very high density will provide good backbone while retaining the soft tips.

 

[Eclectic]

Interesting stuff.
There are so many variables with a brush, which part of the animal the hair came from, the age of the animal, how the hairs have been sorted and trimmed, the density and loft of the knot, how deep the knot is mounted in the handle, the shape of the knot, etc etc.

In general boar brushes have more backbone but take a lot of breaking in. Badger is softer, breaks in quickly and will hold a lot of lather.

In front of me I have an old model Body Shop boar brush that had several years of continuous use. Using a 15X jeweller's loupe it is difficult to find split ends on the hairs, but there are a few.

Also here is an Omega professional boar brush that has been well broken in but not used excessively. This has lots and lots of split ends, mostly split in two, but sometimes more. This is now a lot softer than the first brush and because of its sheer size (with boar you can get away with a far bigger loft) it holds a lot of lather.

The Trumper badger brush here has seen many years use. It has more split ends than the Body Shop but nowhere near as many as the Omega. It is a whole lot softer than both. But if you support it tip down against the table it splays, the boar brushes don't. So there is a big difference in backbone (when dry, everything changes when they are wet).

Also here are two very interesting brushes that some might want to experiment with. The first is the Grosvenor brush sold by Diamond Edge for just £8.40. This is a Vulfix 404 made in a mixture of boar and badger and comes from the same factory as the famous Simpson's brushes. This seems to give the best of both worlds, it doesn't splay like the Trumper yet it holds more lather than the pure bristle brushes.
http://www.diamondedgeltd.com/acatalog/Razors__Shaving_Brushes.html#a760

Then there is this fantastic Spanish professional horse hair brush for just 10.5 Euros. I have seen these described as 85% badger and 85% boar. They have very soft tips and good backbone with no splay when tip down on the table, despite having a considerable loft. It certainly holds more lather than a boar brush. And for all strict vegetarians the hair is gathered without harming the animal. Here it is: http://www.giftsandcare.com/en/cata...ssional-brush-no2-black-horse-hair-extra.html

This is all part of the joy of traditional shaving, we are presented with a fantastic choice of great products to pamper ourselves with.

 

[Drubbing]

Interesting stuff.
There are so many variables with a brush, which part of the animal the hair came from, the age of the animal, how the hairs have been sorted and trimmed, the density and loft of the knot, how deep the knot is mounted in the handle, the shape of the knot, etc etc.

In general boar brushes have more backbone but take a lot of breaking in. Badger is softer, breaks in quickly and will hold a lot of lather.

In my narrow experience of 2 good quality boars, they both hold a lot of lather. The longer lofted one, Semogue Owners club, is certainly as soft as my Silvertip, but with masses of backbone. The Semogue 620 feels like a soft brush, as opposed to a badgery mop. For my face, I can get the 'impossible compromise' of softness and backbone with both these brushes.

As far as break in goes, if a few weeks is considered a lot to achieve 90% of its potential, then I've been happy to wait that long. They will continue to improve.

AFAIK, Semogue is the only maker that uses differing grades of hair, and that can probably make a difference.

 

[milesandcoltrane]

Man you guys are pushing me off the cliff towards getting a boar! Th SOC looks exceptionally tempting.

This issue of differing boar grades offered by Semogue is very interesting. Also another can of worms!

Wrt to my op - let's say we have two brushes, a boar and a badger, both with equal amounts of abundant backbone. Would the backbone, though similar in quantity be different in quality? I ask this because I find the backbone on my Omega boar a little unnatural. It's goo eager to spring back. But this has been improving quite a fair bit with use.

The horae hair brush looks really interesting. Definitely gonna read up on that!

 

[MajorBurnz]

I wouldn't pay much attention to the boar 'grades'.

The only thing you should look for is if the knot is natural sketch or trimmed. If it's trimmed, then the tips won't split, and the brush will always be prickly.

All Semogue and Omega boars are natural sketch.

There are differences in the hairs used by Semogue in the LE/SOC vs. their other brushes, but apart from the length and stinkiness of the break-in period, you probably won't be able to discern much of a difference in feel after the brushes are properly broken-in.

I speak from experience. I have a 1305, 2000 and SOC. The SOC was the best out of the box, but the 1305 and 2000 are every bit as luxurious now that they're broken-in.

Of course, things like knot loft, and size will make an appreciable difference in the feel of the brushes, but you'd have to do some quick talking to convince me that there are any major differences in the hair quality after the break-in period.

 

[Mike Schutz]

Something that seems to be missing in this thread is what type of soap you're using. In my experience, If you're using cream, you can get by with anything. ie: I use my silver tip badgers with Prorasso, etc. If I'm using triple milled soaps, I stick with my boars or a best badger. The extra back bone allows the brush to cut into the soap easier. If I face lather, I like a little more body in the brush. IMHO, it's personal preference. I guess you'll have to try a number of types of brushes and develope a severe SBAD like many of us here.

 

[JPDyson]

The Boar-olution has Begun! Viva la Boar-olution!

 

[milesandcoltrane]

These days I use Tabac soap most of the time. I've only tried Proraso/omega cream which was my previous all time fav but Tabac just owns it! I also tried Godrej Rich Foam cream but that gave me a weird allergic reaction and my skin started to burn and itch like crazy.

I'm looking out for other tallow based soaps. They seem to provide a thicker, denser and richer lather. The creams I've tried tend to be slightly thinner even when less water is used.

Seeing as how I've developed a strong preference for tallow based hard soaps a good boar would be absolutely killer.

Indeed the boar revolution has begun. I'd still want to try a nice badger for the experience but for now boar seems like the way to go!