Which gives a better finished edge, a .50 diamond pasted balsa strop or the Shapton 16K? I only want one of them, and I want the better one of the two.
.50 Micron Balsa strop vs. Shapton 16K stone
- Thread starter raccoonandbrush
- Start date
Balsa/chromox= great smooth edge, about $15
Shapton= great smooth edge, about $100
See here
http://www.tzknives.com/razorbevels.html
http://www.tzknives.com/razoredges.html
Personally I prefer chromox/0.5um diamond on a hanging strop instead of balsa, but it's all good.
Shapton= great smooth edge, about $100
See here
http://www.tzknives.com/razorbevels.html
http://www.tzknives.com/razoredges.html
Personally I prefer chromox/0.5um diamond on a hanging strop instead of balsa, but it's all good.
- Thread starter
- #3
Cool pictures!
I haven't used the Shapton 16K, and use the Naniwa 12K. But, I think the answer will be somewhat the same. And, I think the edges will be similar.
For the sake of argument, let's say that the Shapton gives the better edge, and the edge is demonstrably better than the edge produced by the balsa and diamond. After the first shave and strop, though, will there be any discernible difference between the edges?
I believe that an edge settles down into its daily shaving shape pretty quickly after honing. After the first shave and strop, I suspect, there isn't any difference after that between whatever method is used for honing.
I could be wrong.
Personally, the question about what to use for honing comes down to the time it takes to create the edge. I hone a lot of razors, and so time is the essence. Naniwas or Shaptons or Nortons, or one of the high grit hones is mandatory due to what I think are time saving features.
But, I don't think they give a wildly superior shaving experience.
The Shapton 16K is supposed to be equivalent to ~0.9-1.0u.
I personally like the feel of the shave off the stones better than off the Diamond. But for long term maintenance, the balsa strop with .5 micron will do you plenty of good.
I guess it depends on your AD - I love my stones!
I guess it depends on your AD - I love my stones!
I would hone on a normal progression and finish on a Shapton 16k.
Then, refresh the edge on some ChromOx when the edge doesn't seem as sharp as you would like it to be.
Every few months instead of using ChromOx go back and do 10-20 strokes on the 16k.
Stones and Pastes create different edge profiles.
Pastes won't last you forever, but they do a great job at quickly refreshing an edge in between honing sessions.
Here is a great writeup by Jarrod at the Superior Shave:
Basic Paste Theory 101
Sharpening pastes have a primary limitation, which comes from using them with a stropping action (moving away from the edge) rather than a honing action (moving towards the edge). They can't increase the length of bevels, or decrease the cutting angle of an edge created by the intersections of said bevels. They also can't make wholesale edge restorations or corrections, of course. See my rudimentary sketch below for a visual representation of this wording. What good pastes do is restore proper smoothness to bevel faces and proper linearity to edges created by bevel faces.
Phase 1 (above): A freshly-honed razor has a nice long bevel width which helps create a narrow cutting angle, with smooth and straight bevel faces and a nice and straight line representing the intersection of those bevel faces.
Phase 2 (above): A razor which has dulled from use has had its bevel length reduced, its bevel faces made a bit more ragged/pockmarked, its bevel intersection point turned into a line instead of a point, and had its straight line representing the intersection of those bevel faces become more of a ragged 'line'.
Phase 3 (above): A razor refreshened from pastes hasn't had its bevel length increased, but its bevel faces are indeed nice and smooth again. Its bevels intersect at a point once again, but the angle at which those bevels meet has been changed. The edge line is once again straight. It takes quite a few cycles, but eventually you'll feel a slight difference in the comfort of the razor from the change of the intersection angle of the bevels. Hit the hone at that point to get back to "phase 1".
Then, refresh the edge on some ChromOx when the edge doesn't seem as sharp as you would like it to be.
Every few months instead of using ChromOx go back and do 10-20 strokes on the 16k.
Stones and Pastes create different edge profiles.
Pastes won't last you forever, but they do a great job at quickly refreshing an edge in between honing sessions.
Here is a great writeup by Jarrod at the Superior Shave:
Basic Paste Theory 101
Sharpening pastes have a primary limitation, which comes from using them with a stropping action (moving away from the edge) rather than a honing action (moving towards the edge). They can't increase the length of bevels, or decrease the cutting angle of an edge created by the intersections of said bevels. They also can't make wholesale edge restorations or corrections, of course. See my rudimentary sketch below for a visual representation of this wording. What good pastes do is restore proper smoothness to bevel faces and proper linearity to edges created by bevel faces.
Phase 1 (above): A freshly-honed razor has a nice long bevel width which helps create a narrow cutting angle, with smooth and straight bevel faces and a nice and straight line representing the intersection of those bevel faces.
Phase 2 (above): A razor which has dulled from use has had its bevel length reduced, its bevel faces made a bit more ragged/pockmarked, its bevel intersection point turned into a line instead of a point, and had its straight line representing the intersection of those bevel faces become more of a ragged 'line'.
Phase 3 (above): A razor refreshened from pastes hasn't had its bevel length increased, but its bevel faces are indeed nice and smooth again. Its bevels intersect at a point once again, but the angle at which those bevels meet has been changed. The edge line is once again straight. It takes quite a few cycles, but eventually you'll feel a slight difference in the comfort of the razor from the change of the intersection angle of the bevels. Hit the hone at that point to get back to "phase 1".
The first time I saw Jarrod's basic paste theory 101 drawings, I thought they were a bunch of dirty pictures. 
In reality, they're a very clear and simple description of what's going on at the edge.
In reality, they're a very clear and simple description of what's going on at the edge.
If only he used a profile of a wedge or a full hollow, there would be no confusion, instead he chose to use the profile of a frameback(that could be interpreted as something else). 
