Black Arkansas "primitive" Happy B-day to me!!!

[eKretz]

I have seen some hard Arks let loose a little bit of auto-slurry but only right after lapping, and only for a very short time. It seems to me that it's usually the white translucent ones that it's been more common with. In my experience, with those few that do, after that first little bit they don't release much of anything.

That black Ark staying dull like it is makes me think it's not getting quite to the level of burnish that it needs for the best razor edges.

Here's about where I like mine to be. Both shots are my NW 3" x 10" Translucent black Ark with the stone dry and washed with acetone - no oil or water on the surface. Second shot is a near 90° reflection of an incandescent light bulb, you can see it pretty clearly.

 

[Dilbone]

I don't think that you will observe any measurable amount of slurry off any arkie while honing a razor. Washitas may let a little bit loose under a heavy load but swarf is what you are most likely seeing.

I would agree with that. Knowing how much pressure I'm using with the chisel on this thing to burnish it as compared to honing a razor I can't see any slurry being generated.

I have seen some hard Arks let loose a little bit of auto-slurry but only right after lapping, and only for a very short time. It seems to me that it's usually the white translucent ones that it's been more common with. In my experience, with those few that do, after that first little bit they don't release much of anything.

That black Ark staying dull like it is makes me think it's not getting quite to the level of burnish that it needs for the best razor edges.

Here's about where I like mine to be. Both shots are my NW 3" x 10" Translucent black Ark with the stone dry and washed with acetone - no oil or water on the surface. Second shot is a near 90° reflection of an incandescent light bulb, you can see it pretty clearly.

Yeah, mine wasn't anywhere near that. I do feel like I've gotten close now. I took an old junk razor and under running water I worked on it for quite a while then on to WD-40 for a good long while. That made a huge difference in terms of the angle of view that would actually give some reflection. I grabbed the razor I've been fooling with on this ark and hit the coti last night because the ark had pretty much killed the edge. The coti brought the edge back pretty quickly and polished up the bevel right quick.

I then put the razor back on the ark with some mineral oil cut with mineral spirits and it immediately the polish I had re-established on the coti was gone and the edge was also gone.

This Ark is clearly not ready. This evening I've been hitting hit pretty hard with the chisel and the finish is definitely refining and getting more reflective. I'm beginning to wonder if I'm ever going to get this burnished well enough to hone a razor on...

Also, do you all wash the oil off with a little dish liquid when you're done or just wipe it off really well?

 

[Brianskeet]

I really liked using my paint scraper for breaking in my trans ark. Big wide scraper let me cover the entire stone and made churning out tons of laps quickly an easier task.

 

[Dilbone]

I really liked using my paint scraper for breaking in my trans ark. Big wide scraper let me cover the entire stone and made churning out tons of laps quickly an easier task.

Now that's a great idea...I may be breaking out the ol' paint scraper tonight. My stone is over 4" wide so I won't be able to cover it all with one swipe, but it will have to be easier than keeping that chisel at the right bevel angle like I have been.

Do you use a fair amount of pressure with the scraper?

 

[Dilbone]

Here are a couple of picks from last night after several rounds of burnishing with an old razor and the chisel...that's the same night light I had posted an image of earlier but the stone doesn't have to be held at near the angle to make it clear. The 2nd is taken at nearly 90 degrees of an incandescent bulb where you can actually see the filament. It isn't where eKretz's stone is but it is at least getting better.

 

[Brianskeet]

Now that's a great idea...I may be breaking out the ol' paint scraper tonight. My stone is over 4" wide so I won't be able to cover it all with one swipe, but it will have to be easier than keeping that chisel at the right bevel angle like I have been.

Do you use a fair amount of pressure with the scraper?

Thank you! I didn't use much pressure. I put a slight bend in the scrapper and just went at it! My goal was much more lap count oriented than pressure.

 

[eKretz]

Here are a couple of picks from last night after several rounds of burnishing with an old razor and the chisel...that's the same night light I had posted an image of earlier but the stone doesn't have to be held at near the angle to make it clear. The 2nd is taken at nearly 90 degrees of an incandescent bulb where you can actually see the filament. It isn't where eKretz's stone is but it is at least getting better.

That's getting much closer now. Keep at it!

 

[Dilbone]

I had a setback a couple of nights ago. I got the scraper out and it seemed to remove some of the burnishing I had already done. The outside edges of the stone are the least burnished parts, so I used the scraper mostly on those areas. It went from being mildly reflective to matte again. The center of the stone was still looking good and you could tell it felt like glass with the scraper, then around the perimeter it was loud feedback and very rough. I gave up on that once I noticed that I not only wasn't getting anywhere but was making it worse.

I went back to the chisel for a while and didn't seem like I was getting anywhere. Then I got that old junk razor out and started to work on it again under running water. That made a huge difference pretty quickly and brought the matte areas up closer to where they were before. I'm afraid I used too much pressure with the chisel and/or scraper and have what seem like tiny scratches in the stone. We'll see as I continue to burnish if that indeed is what I'm seeing.

Yesterday morning before leaving for work I went to the barn looking for some scrap steel I could use for this that will cover the entire width of the stone and I can just burnish back and forth without any worry of corners digging or gouging the stone. Ahhhh, a cut off from a seat hoop from a motorcycle build...this could work.
The seat hoop wasn't terrible, but I also brought a fresh out of the box Gold Dollar and have been going to town on it with some WD-40. As I continue to work on this I can't get the thoughts of, "will this ever be done?" out of my head. I don't know this was raising a slurry or not, but the WD-40 had a purple tinge to it as I worked on that GD. No other steel I've put on this stone has given a purple tinge to the oil.

Last night I got that junk razor out and used some Smith's instead of WD-40 and after a few hundred half strokes I looked at the bevel of that razor and it was actually polishing up really well. I looked at the stone and I could tell the reflectivity was coming up again. I got the Gold Dollar out I had first worked on before and tried doing some laps with it. The polish on the bevel stayed about the same from what it has off the coti but the edge wasn't quite as good. I think I am definitely getting closer by the way the bevel looks now.

 

[bluesman 7]

The Smith's is growing on me...only because it's water soluble and requires no special clean up other than a rinse. It smells like ethylene glycol(anti-freeze) to me.

I speculate that it may be propylene glycol and glycerine. I have nothing to base this on other than speculation and the fact that it is water soluble as well as being compatible with oil soaked stones. I've meant to experiment with this combo, but it's been a low priority.

 

[Dilbone]

I will say that the Smith's seems to be the one honing solution that is helping me finally have some progress in getting this burnished. I just did another 20 minute session with that old junk razor and it is far better than it was. I'm gonna do another 20 minutes and get some pics hopefully

 

[Slawman]

I really like the Smith's product. You can use it on all types of stones with great success. Another good product for about anything in your shop or home is Ballistol. I mix it 50/50 with the Smiths & that is mainly what I use on my stones now. I also use Ballistol on my shell strops with great results. I don't work for them or anything but this stuff is a great product that has been around since before WW-1.
Just go to ballistol.com & learn about it!
On your Coti have you tried finish honing under running water? Dr, Matt has some good videos on honing with a Coti that really opened my eyes.

Slawman

 

[Dilbone]

I really like the Smith's product. You can use it on all types of stones with great success. Another good product for about anything in your shop or home is Ballistol. I mix it 50/50 with the Smiths & that is mainly what I use on my stones now. I also use Ballistol on my shell strops with great results. I don't work for them or anything but this stuff is a great product that has been around since before WW-1.
Just go to ballistol.com & learn about it!
On your Coti have you tried finish honing under running water? Dr, Matt has some good videos on honing with a Coti that really opened my eyes.

Slawman

I'll have to check into Ballistol. I have honed on the coti under running water, with lather, with glycerin, and with oil. For me I think I like just going from a light touch to some glycerin at the end. I do feel like I have the coti figured out well enough to get a decent edge with it although I still hit crox on cotton when I'm done to bump the keenness up another notch. My hope was that I could get the arki working well enough that I could hit it coming off the coti and be happy with that edge without the crox.

 

[Dilbone]

Taking pictures of the reflections in this stone is nearly impossible. None of the pics show the reflection as clearly as what it really is, but here's what I had as of a few days ago. You can see the scratches in the first pic pretty clearly...it's a mess. The single bulb pics were can lights where you can actually see the outer line of the can with the bulb in the center. I was getting pretty reflective there, but the overall surface was not working with all the damage I had done with the paint scraper and chisel.





The scratches in the stone and some inconsistencies in the way it was burnishing from the paint scraper episode had me deciding to lap it today with some 1500grit WD paper. 4 sheets in it looked like I was getting a much more consistent finish. I burnished a bit with that old junk razor today, but I may have to lap it a bit more before continuing.

 

[eKretz]

For burnishing you need to stick to very hard steel. A scraper is probably too soft, won't help you much. The lapping to a finer baseline will only help you I think, probably a good idea.

 

[Dilbone]

I got through 5 sheets of 1500 grit and didn't try any of the 2000 grit yet. I spent a bit of time with that junk razor burnishing under running water then honed quite a bit on that Gold Dollar I've been trying to get the edge back to where I like it.
The edge still isn't there, the polish on the bevel is getting better off of the stone but the edge just isn't where it needs to be. It's not even as good as it is coming off the coti yet, but the stone is looking a bit better. I think I may get a sheet or 2 of the 2000 grit paper going and see if I can get it a little more polished.
Here's what it looks like now

 

[Dilbone]

I took the Gold Dollar I've been working on back to the king 6k because I think all this work at burnishing and using a lot of pressure with hundreds or even thousands of laps I knew I needed to start over.

After a few rounds of 30 laps on the king I hit the coti for a few rounds of 30laps.

Then I went to the arkie for 100 light laps on smith's honing solution with just a bit of water to thin it out a bit and keep it from evaporating so quickly. I checked the floating over leg hair and it was the best it had been so far coming off of the ark. I went back and did another 100 nice and light laps with the solution a little less diluted and it seems the keenest I've had it off the stones so far.

I look forward to a shave test in the morning. The stone is looking even better in terms of the burnishing...I feel like I'm finally getting somewhere.

 

[kelbro]

Just an FYI... the more you burnish, the more strokes it takes to refine the edge. Not a bad thing, just a thing.

 

[kcb5150]

I have my butterscotch one like a reflecting pool. It's a 300ish lap proposition usually. The edge is absolutely beautiful though so worth it..

 

[Dilbone]

Just an FYI... the more you burnish, the more strokes it takes to refine the edge. Not a bad thing, just a thing.

I have my butterscotch one like a reflecting pool. It's a 300ish lap proposition usually. The edge is absolutely beautiful though so worth it..

Thanks for chiming in with that fellas. It's certainly no "reflecting pool" but the reflection is better than it's been yet at less of an angle.

At this point I'm not sure I even care how many laps it takes as long as it works...I had told a buddy that I was going to go burry this piece of novaculite in the back yard if I couldn't get it to work soon.

The test shave this morning was a major success. I'm not sure it was quite as keen as it is coming off the coti to crox on cotton, but I feel like it is the keenest edge I have had straight off the stones yet still plenty smooth. It is keen and smooth enough that I could be content with this edge without hitting crox, which is saying A LOT for me and my honing experience so far.

The blade I've been using as a test blade is one of my more challenging blades to hone because of a warp in the blade, so I'm looking forward to hitting some of my "easier" to hone blades and see how far I can push it now.

 

[eKretz]

Sounds like you're pretty close now. It will only get better.