Thiers Issard not sharp enough

[Doc Dan]

I sent my brand new Thiers Issard off to have it professionally sharpened because I didn't think it was sharp enough. It was supposed to be shave ready and it would shave, sort of. But it would drag and I had to force it to cut a few times. I ended up with a weeper one day and two the next. My other straight razor, sharpened by this professional near me, shaves wonderfully. So, thinking that if I had a DE blade that shaved like that I'd change it, I sent it off to have it honed on some smoother stones than the factory uses.

Now, perhaps people have different ideas of what sharp is. Perhaps the good folks at TI that made my gorgeous razor have a different idea of sharp. I don't know. When I want sharp, I want something that has a smooth edge, not coarse, and will whittle hair.

 

[rbscebu]

I have yet to receive a SR with factory honed edge that shaved to my desired standard. Some just need a little work while others almost major surgery. Purchase price doesn't differentiate.

 

[CpnStumpy]

I sent my brand new Thiers Issard off to have it professionally sharpened because I didn't think it was sharp enough. It was supposed to be shave ready and it would shave, sort of. But it would drag and I had to force it to cut a few times. I ended up with a weeper one day and two the next. My other straight razor, sharpened by this professional near me, shaves wonderfully. So, thinking that if I had a DE blade that shaved like that I'd change it, I sent it off to have it honed on some smoother stones than the factory uses.

Now, perhaps people have different ideas of what sharp is. Perhaps the good folks at TI that made my gorgeous razor have a different idea of sharp. I don't know. When I want sharp, I want something that has a smooth edge, not coarse, and will whittle hair.

Factory edges aren't sharp enough unless by "factory" we mean small high end shops ala Koraat, Aust, etc. Boker, TI, Dovo, other large manufacturers don't hone manually before shipping

 

[Titleist]

I sent my brand new Thiers Issard off to have it professionally sharpened because I didn't think it was sharp enough. It was supposed to be shave ready and it would shave, sort of. But it would drag and I had to force it to cut a few times. I ended up with a weeper one day and two the next. My other straight razor, sharpened by this professional near me, shaves wonderfully. So, thinking that if I had a DE blade that shaved like that I'd change it, I sent it off to have it honed on some smoother stones than the factory uses.

Now, perhaps people have different ideas of what sharp is. Perhaps the good folks at TI that made my gorgeous razor have a different idea of sharp. I don't know. When I want sharp, I want something that has a smooth edge, not coarse, and will whittle hair.

You're not alone in this.

Both T.I.'s that I own and purchased brand new were then professionally honed before they left for delivery to me.

 

[rbscebu]

Factory edges aren't sharp enough unless by "factory" we mean small high end shops ala Koraat, Aust, etc. Boker, TI, Dovo, other large manufacturers don't hone manually before shipping

I haven't had the pleasure of buying a Koraat. My Ralf Aust still needed a little work to shave me well.

 

[PintoPlain]

Factory edges aren't sharp enough unless by "factory" we mean small high end shops ala Koraat, Aust, etc. Boker, TI, Dovo, other large manufacturers don't hone manually before shipping

My Rigarazor was shave ready (for me anyway). I've seen a few new dovos I was interested in, but looked like they needed a lot of work. Didn't purchase in the end.

 

[Steve56]

Factories don’t have time to hone each razor by hand and doing so would increase the costs by an hour’s labor, say $50-75.

And other reasons come to mind, for instance:
- Honing without tape would incur spinewear and people would complain about their new razor being used;
- If the steel is not a uniform thickness at the bevel (looking at you TI), the bevel will be ‘wavy’ or not a uniform width;
- other defects like over grinding on the wheels would be immediately obvious

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

So, you sent the TI back to TI for honing?

Have your razors honed by someone that shaves with a straight razor daily, it should be shave tested, before it is packaged for return shipping.

As said most “factories” can not hone razors unless they are small shops.

If you are happy with your local guy and he (is the person that will actually hone your razor) will test shave it, use him. It will be much keener than TI.

Most bran new TI razor I hone need some repair, usually heel correction where much of the heel has been ground and the corner is now over the stabilizer, the razor will not sit flat on the hone. I think they use one of those platter diamond hones with the spine off the hone.

It is a thing about most edge tools, that they do not come finish sharpened and honed. It is up to the user to put his own edge on the tool. Some tools require some edge repair and a full bevel set.

Back in the day, honing, knifes, tools and razors was a ubiquitous skill. As everyone carried a knife and shave with a straight razor up until WWII. Sad how quickly we can lose a skill.

Just the other day I purchased a $12 item and gave the kid $22, a twenty and 2 ones. He was baffled and kept saying I gave him too much. I told him, punch it in the register, and it told him to give me back a $10. He was totally confused, thinking I was scamming him. Some day kids like him will be running this country.

If your razor was honed, it should not take much to get it up to speed with just a good 8 or 12k and a Chrome Oxide strop.

Post some pics and the guys here can help you out, step by step, then you can hone your own, no change required.

 

[Gamma]

Any seller claiming any typical factory edge (TI, Boker, Dovo, etc) is 'shave ready' without needing to be, at least, touched up - is gambling heavily on the end user's edge tolerances being pretty low. Believing what factories say about edges and honing is equal to waiting for the Great Pumpkin to arrive.

Across the years, many people have said their Dovo blades arrived in shave-worthy condition. I have never seen a Dovo arrive ready to shave. But I have not seen every single Dovo ever sold so maybe some come with better edges. Maybe some people have a lower tolerance for what sharp is. Maybe some people just make stuff up so they have something to post on the internet. Maybe all of the above. I've bought 'honed to perfection' blades that still had factory-level striations in the bevel. So, unfortunately, a lot of what I read on the internet means very little to me. There's just too much b/s floating around.

I bought a brand new high-end blade from someone that insisted it needed honing before being shipped.
That edge still needed to be honed by me on arrival.

I look at it this way - if I buy a pre-seasoned cast iron skillet, sure - it is seasoned, but it is not seasoned how I want it to be seasoned so there is work to do. It's just the nature of the beast.

Same for razors....for me, one of the biggest reasons I use a straight is so I can get the edge how I want it, and not have to deal with what some factory or honesmith tells me is 'good' to shave with. Having to hone a blade is a good thing, IMO, because it means it'll be 'my way'.

 

[Eastcoast30]

I have had a few razors that were truly shave ready from the factory. They tested out well on HHT and shaved smooth and comfortably. But those were the exceptions and not the rule. Factory edges that worked for me were: Le Grelot, a few Japanese razors like SanKan and Ribbon, and Iwasaki of course. So, each razor is different and you want to bring the edge to where it suits you best (as likely it will not rrive in that condition).

 

[Tanuki]

To me, shave ready from a 'big' SR manufacturer (Dovo, T-I, Boker, etc.) simply means that the razor will deliver a decent/SAS shave with a short (20 to 30 laps) strop on good leather.

If I can get it moved up to a solid/DFS shave using just my 50/100/200 diamond pasted balsa progression I consider it to be fully shave ready. My Dovo Carre 6/8 met this standard. My Dovo Best 5/8 did not meet either standard, but only needed to visit my Naniwa 12k a couple times to get on track. I sent back, without trying, a T-I with a very wavy bevel. My T-I Spécial-Coiffeur 6/8 hit that SAS level, but needed some brief finish honing to go beyond.

Expectations of demanding B&B shavers are rightly high end. The only high end shaves I get off newly arriving razors have been from some of the used razors purchased off the BST or those loaned by B&Bers for edge testing.

 

[Tanuki]

My Rigarazor was shave ready (for me anyway). I've seen a few new dovos I was interested in, but looked like they needed a lot of work. Didn't purchase in the end.

My Rigarazor was great on arrival. My technique has improved since then, but my balsa progression is all it has ever seen. Quite the beast, I compare its shave to my heavier Sheffields, though the steel seems quite different, as expected.

 

[JPO]

None of my new razors have come close to shave ready. The biggest issue have been frowns and other geometry issues. A common issue have also been dings from mishandling at the factory. All my razors have required a complete bevel reset. You can to some extent work with the geometry, but it is better just to get it aligned and good from the start.
I bought three razors from France (not TI). They were all over buffed. The edges looked like they were set on a buffing wheel. One was also overground in one spot on one side. The cheapest model I got was actually close to perfect. So price might not matter much.

 

[R7photo]

I purchased a new ti from a vendor who supposedly sharpens razors, razor was not shave ready, good news however it made me fall down the honing hole and learn how to hone my own razors
( approaching 2 yr mark)

I also purchased a vintage nos razor sealed and most likely manufactured 60,s

Razor was shave ready with a fabulous edge

 

[aussie]

I have a Japanese razor, a Suzumsa that I bought from someone here, that was NOS when it came to me. I gave it the pasted balsa treatment and it shaved fine. I can't say what it was like before that.

One day I will put it onto lapping film and see how that goes.

 

[RayClem]

Thiers Issard uses their special C135 "Carbonsong" steel. With 1.35% carbon, it is a lot harder than most blades with less than 1% carbon. Thus, TI razors are more difficult to sharpen than regular razors. If the "professional" charged you the standard fee for sharpening most razors and followed his standard procedure, the blade is not likely to achieve its full potential.

Many razors are hardened somewhere between HRC 55-58. C135 steel can be hardened somewhere around HRC 65. That is similar to professional Japanese chef knives. Such blades can be sharpened to a very high level, but such edges tend to be very brittle. Thus, you have to know how to sharpen such hard steels without developing microchips.

If you want your blades to be super sharp as I do for my coarse beard, I highly recommend that you get a set of pasted strops. A 10K stone is about 1 micron grit size. Although it can produce a sharp edge, that edge is not even close to being sharp enough for my beard. However, if I further refine that edge with 0.5 micron, 0.25 micron, and 0.1 micron abrasives on pasted strops, I can produce a mirror polished edge that is super sharp and super smooth with no microchips.

There are many forum members who can use pasted strops to maintain an edge almost indefinitely. Do a search for the thread

How To Use a Pasted Balsa Strop.​

It is a very lengthy thread, but it contains everything you need to know about using pasted strops to maintain your edges.

 

[aussie]

I reiterate the advice given about except the part about the balsa. I moved onto pasted leather paddle strops for better results.

 

[Eastcoast30]

If I am going to use diamond paste (which sometimes I do), I will put it on an inexpensive piece of balsa. Why?

1. I don't want to contaminate an expensive leather strop. And since I use a progression of three diamond pastes, I don't want to contaminate three leather strops.
2. Balsa is perfect because you lap it flat. As diamond paste removes material, you will get a convex (axe) bevel with a leather strop and diamond paste.
3. Both the balsa and leather will load. Much easier to lap a piece of balsa and it is as good as new; apply fresh paste.

And yes, the pasted balsa method works extremely well.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

Thiers Issard uses their special C135 "Carbonsong" steel. With 1.35% carbon, it is a lot harder than most blades with less than 1% carbon. Thus, TI razors are more difficult to sharpen than regular razors. If the "professional" charged you the standard fee for sharpening most razors and followed his standard procedure, the blade is not likely to achieve its full potential.

Many razors are hardened somewhere between HRC 55-58. C135 steel can be hardened somewhere around HRC 65. That is similar to professional Japanese chef knives. Such blades can be sharpened to a very high level, but such edges tend to be very brittle. Thus, you have to know how to sharpen such hard steels without developing microchips.

I suspect the HRC number only tells part of the story. Ulrik Beyer says he hardens his Koraats to around HRC65 and mine was quite easy to hone, resetting the bevel from taped to no tape took very little effort. The steel he uses is 1.2210, aka 115CrV3, which is not as high in carbon as TI's, but it's still over 1.1%.

Of course it helps that his razors don't have geometry issues when they leave his workshop.

 

[Eastcoast30]

^ @Darth Scandalous, "Of course it helps that his razors don't have geometry issues when they leave his workshop."

Yes, and this is where TI falls flat on its face.