WOW, +1. Perfectly stated.
Is clothing or grooming a requirement to define a gentleman?
- Thread starter Rockminer
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WOW, +1. Perfectly stated.
I say it's expected that a gentleman be properly groomed and dressed...and if he can't afford it then at least be presentable. wearing pants falling off the hips or skimpy clothing on purpose gives off a inappropriate image.
So yes and no...
I voted no. It's definitely not.
Though the abundance of companies selling products for the "distinguished gentleman" would love for you to believe otherwise.
On that note, a true gentleman would never refer to himself as such. Humility is a huge part of being a gentleman.
Though the abundance of companies selling products for the "distinguished gentleman" would love for you to believe otherwise.
On that note, a true gentleman would never refer to himself as such. Humility is a huge part of being a gentleman.
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Voted no.
Imagine a man possessing all the other gentlemanly virtues, with the exception of grooming and dress, and put him in shabby clothes, a scraggly beard, and mussed hair . . . is he still a gentleman?
Imagine another man, with no redeeming qualities and put him in a nice suit. Is he now more gentlemanly?
Imagine a man possessing all the other gentlemanly virtues, with the exception of grooming and dress, and put him in shabby clothes, a scraggly beard, and mussed hair . . . is he still a gentleman?
Imagine another man, with no redeeming qualities and put him in a nice suit. Is he now more gentlemanly?
OTOH, wouldn't a gentleman be expected to take some pride in himself and at least make an effort to be presentable and appropriately dressed for the occasion?
I believe a true gentleman would have no pride.
Clothing and grooming are a requirement in being a gentleman, however they are not a requirement for being a good and decent human being. Being a good and decent human being is the foundation on which a gentleman is built.
The scenarios outlined show three different good and decent human beings, who are dressed in various ways. They each exhibit gentlemanly attributes, but clothes and grooming do count towards the capital G definition of Gentleman. Although, I am sure that the definition of what makes a gentleman varies by personal interpretation and generation; one persons gentleman may be anothers good guy and anothers bro.
Clothing matters in how one projects self and how one is perceived. Back in the 1500s; Erasmus wrote: vestis virum facit meaning clothes makes the man, but I believe that Mark Twain made a better argument with his quip, Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society. Clothes by themselves do not make you a Gentleman, but being having pride in your appearance and being dressed appropriate to the situation are attributes of a Gentleman.
Grooming contributes to being a Gentleman as well, although I will break out grooming and hygiene. Like clothes, your grooming should be appropriate to the situation and your ability. Good hygiene is critical to being a Gentleman.
What makes a Gentleman has been discussed over and over since the term came into being. Despite the language being dated The Gentlemen's Book of Etiquette and Manual of Politeness; Being a Complete Guide for a Gentleman's Conduct in all his Relations Towards Society is a book published in 1860 by Cecil B. Hartley - where he outlines many gentlemanly ideals that are still relevant today.
In the section on One Hundred Hints for Gentlemanly Deportment there is Number 22: Perhaps the true definition of a gentleman is this: Whoever is open, loyal, and true; whoever is of humane and affable demeanor; whoever is honorable in himself, and in his judgment of others, and requires no law but his word to make him fulfil an engagement; such a man is a gentleman, be he in the highest or lowest rank of life, a man of elegant refinement and intellect, or the most unpolished tiller of the ground.
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/39293/39293-h/39293-h.htm#Page_3
The scenarios outlined show three different good and decent human beings, who are dressed in various ways. They each exhibit gentlemanly attributes, but clothes and grooming do count towards the capital G definition of Gentleman. Although, I am sure that the definition of what makes a gentleman varies by personal interpretation and generation; one persons gentleman may be anothers good guy and anothers bro.
Clothing matters in how one projects self and how one is perceived. Back in the 1500s; Erasmus wrote: vestis virum facit meaning clothes makes the man, but I believe that Mark Twain made a better argument with his quip, Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society. Clothes by themselves do not make you a Gentleman, but being having pride in your appearance and being dressed appropriate to the situation are attributes of a Gentleman.
Grooming contributes to being a Gentleman as well, although I will break out grooming and hygiene. Like clothes, your grooming should be appropriate to the situation and your ability. Good hygiene is critical to being a Gentleman.
What makes a Gentleman has been discussed over and over since the term came into being. Despite the language being dated The Gentlemen's Book of Etiquette and Manual of Politeness; Being a Complete Guide for a Gentleman's Conduct in all his Relations Towards Society is a book published in 1860 by Cecil B. Hartley - where he outlines many gentlemanly ideals that are still relevant today.
In the section on One Hundred Hints for Gentlemanly Deportment there is Number 22: Perhaps the true definition of a gentleman is this: Whoever is open, loyal, and true; whoever is of humane and affable demeanor; whoever is honorable in himself, and in his judgment of others, and requires no law but his word to make him fulfil an engagement; such a man is a gentleman, be he in the highest or lowest rank of life, a man of elegant refinement and intellect, or the most unpolished tiller of the ground.
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/39293/39293-h/39293-h.htm#Page_3
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Great post Tim_McD
After the days I've spent posting on this subject, listening to others who agree and disagree with me, and contemplating the entirety of all of it, I've come to the conclusion that the definition of Gentleman has both stayed the same, and changed at the same time, depending on how one chooses to use that term, and how society as a whole uses it.
I think your spot on with the "personal interpretation and generation" comment and I think that is the main point of contention when it comes to those who believe clothing and grooming either count or don't. I also think you're correct when you say that one person Gentleman is another's good guy, bro, good samaritan etc. I think that society has possibly decided that instead of using all of those different terms to describe someone that they've adopted the gentleman term to sort of encompass all of those words, not that people still don't use those other words as well. I also think a lot of people would be perfectly comfortable with number 22 as the final definition, although technically it might not be correct to the letter.
I'm trying to think of other examples of words that might be looked at the same way. Maybe Hero?
Anyway, I guess my point in this whole thing is I'm of the opinion that we use that word here defined more closely to number 22, and I think the poll so far shows that.
After the days I've spent posting on this subject, listening to others who agree and disagree with me, and contemplating the entirety of all of it, I've come to the conclusion that the definition of Gentleman has both stayed the same, and changed at the same time, depending on how one chooses to use that term, and how society as a whole uses it.
I think your spot on with the "personal interpretation and generation" comment and I think that is the main point of contention when it comes to those who believe clothing and grooming either count or don't. I also think you're correct when you say that one person Gentleman is another's good guy, bro, good samaritan etc. I think that society has possibly decided that instead of using all of those different terms to describe someone that they've adopted the gentleman term to sort of encompass all of those words, not that people still don't use those other words as well. I also think a lot of people would be perfectly comfortable with number 22 as the final definition, although technically it might not be correct to the letter.
I'm trying to think of other examples of words that might be looked at the same way. Maybe Hero?
Anyway, I guess my point in this whole thing is I'm of the opinion that we use that word here defined more closely to number 22, and I think the poll so far shows that.
A gentleman is defined, literally, by their behaviour and not their appearance.
Thus the answer becomes "no", clothing and grooming are not a requirement to meet the definition.
But if one behaves in such a manner becoming of a gentleman, then it usually follows that they groom themselves and dress well.
Thus the answer becomes "no", clothing and grooming are not a requirement to meet the definition.
But if one behaves in such a manner becoming of a gentleman, then it usually follows that they groom themselves and dress well.
Great post, it really clarify the issue.
So yes and no
Big distinction between being a kind and caring person and being a gentleman. Being kind and caring may not entail or require proper image. But being a gentleman we expect proper image .
Correct, in most instances. But it all depends really.
I think in the US we often chafe at the undemocratic, class-based implications of, "gentleman." But it's hard to ignore the original meaning and connotations of the word.
What about being a pimp?
That requires you to push women. In two senses.
When I was a kid, I was tought that a definition of a Gentleman is, a guy who steps out of the shower to pee! 
It really depends on what definition of gentleman you use. At one time the definition was a man of noble birth who belonged to the landed gentry. Gradually the definition seems to have changed to a man who treats people in a polite or civil way.
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