Between mild and aggressive - which way?

[John Malkovich]

G'day Gentlemen,
Long-time reader, first-time poster here, trying to go back to DE shaving.
For the last 30 years, I have been using various cartridges from Gillette, for quick, hassle-free and smooth daily shaves. Last year, I spotted a KGC DE razor in a store and decided to give it a try. Of course, the DE technique was no longer there in my wrist, so I began rebuilding it slowly, using Gillette Platinum blades. However, with WTG and XTG passes, I could never attain a satisfactory shave: never as close enough, never as good enough on certain spots (top of cheeks) as with Gillette Fusion 5. Preparation, razor angles and Wilkinson blades did not make any difference. No matter how many passes, Fusion 5 could still pick some remains.
Recently, I pulled out of drawer my father's DE razor from the 70s (Swing brand, made in Sweden), with pretty flat head and flat bar instead of comb. I was able to get a very, very close shave with a single WTG pass. However, XTG pass was a bloodbath, no matter how gently I did it, with all-day irritation afterwards.
I am still determined to pursue the DE path, but apparently need a different razor. Is there a middle-way between KCG and Swing razor? Would EJ DE89 make a difference over KCG?

Thank you in advance for your input and your reccommendations.

 

[demaro]

G'day Gentlemen,
Long-time reader, first-time poster here, trying to go back to DE shaving.
For the last 30 years, I have been using various cartridges from Gillette, for quick, hassle-free and smooth daily shaves. Last year, I spotted a KGC DE razor in a store and decided to give it a try. Of course, the DE technique was no longer there in my wrist, so I began rebuilding it slowly, using Gillette Platinum blades. However, with WTG and XTG passes, I could never attain a satisfactory shave: never as close enough, never as good enough on certain spots (top of cheeks) as with Gillette Fusion 5. Preparation, razor angles and Wilkinson blades did not make any difference. No matter how many passes, Fusion 5 could still pick some remains.
Recently, I pulled out of drawer my father's DE razor from the 70s (Swing brand, made in Sweden), with pretty flat head and flat bar instead of comb. I was able to get a very, very close shave with a single WTG pass. However, XTG pass was a bloodbath, no matter how gently I did it, with all-day irritation afterwards.
I am still determined to pursue the DE path, but apparently need a different razor. Is there a middle-way between KCG and Swing razor? Would EJ DE89 make a difference over KCG?

Thank you in advance for your input and your reccommendations.

i would say EJ razors are very good , also vintage Gillette Tech or Super Speed , . Try different blades , what works for some may not work on others . Also , nothing wrong with a mild razor . If you have good technique , you will get a great shave . My most go to razor is a black handled super speed from the 70s , which is pretty mild . I have a fairly tough beard and after all these years of using a de, I get an excellent shave in one pass .

 

[Iridian]

Would EJ DE89 make a difference over KCG?

No, too similar. You should try some more aggressive razors to get a better shave or still have to work some more on your technique, as many get totally fine results with the King C. Gillette. But I personally need something more aggressive as well.

A different razor blade might also make a difference. Try BIC Platinum, Gillette Nacet, Feather e.g. and rather blades often labeled stainless steel vs platinum coated ones (the actual difference of material is not there, only in the coating, even if it sounds like steel vs platinum) to up the shave.

There are some razors listed there by aggression, not only Razorock razors but also pretty common ones.

RazoRock Razor Scale - The Bottom is the Mildest and The Top is the Mo – ItalianBarber

If you are looking for placement on the scale for the new RazoRock Superslant razors, please see below:L1, L1+, L1++, L1++OC - MILD-MEDIUM(L1 being the ...

www.italianbarber.com

I suggest trying something in the medium aggression range.

Absolutely fantastic picks would be Lambda Ares/Athena or Blackland Blackbird, but those are in the premium range.

 

[rudygu]

Would EJ DE89 make a difference over KCG?

It would, but it’s quite a minor difference. I would try a Kai blade in the KCG first. They wider than standard and will increase the blade exposure of any razor. Alternatively you could shim the KCG. That will increase the gap and exposure while also adding rigidity to the blade. There are very good posts here explaining in depth how to do this. Either of these options would be a larger difference than moving from a KCG to a DE89 (or Muhle R89).

Edit: I should add that there are blades narrower than standard as well. Bic blades and Personna Comfort Coated will actually decrease the exposure of razors they are used in. You could try those in your more aggressive razor to tone it down a bit. I’ve found this to work quite well as these blades are typically good, sharp performers.

 

[NorthernSoul]

There is not really a rule about how aggressive a razor should be. When this question comes up, usually people will start recommending their personal favorite razors. I'm not sure that helps you very much, though.

You sound like a person that might benefit from an adjustable razor. Something like the Merkur Progress, maybe. The adjustment range would allow you to find that point at which the razor gives you a close shave with reasonable comfort. This is also a razor that has been around for a long time, so it is a well-proven design.

Many people find that a milder razor with a very sharp blade provides a close shave with comfort. It may require experimentation, though, to know how mild you can go.

 

[Black-Tie]

I think you should continue working on your technique with the Swing. It’s a lovely razor.

Also, you should maybe consider that Swing razor is relatively mild, so stepping up to a more aggressive razor right now maybe it’s not the best way to stop the bloodbath.

Throughout my wet shaving journey I remember constantly increasing the level of aggressiveness, to finally settle (years after) somewhere in the middle.

However, we all prefer different things, so if you can, you should try something else until you settle to a razor that suits YOU.

 

[musicman1951]

There are lots of razors and lots of blades. But first - blood comes from technique, not equipment. As you've already discovered, it's possible to make the bloodbath easier to produce with some equipment over others.

Since you're concentrating on almost no pressure - I'm trusting you here, as the pressure required is about 1/16 (or so) that of your cartridge razor - you know it's your razor angle. Some experimenting is required. It's not likely to be too shallow as that would lift the blade clean off your face, so I'd try a less steep angle. It's pretty difficult to make a bloody mess with little pressure, so keep trying to make that a little lighter.

Equipment: you've got a ton of choices. The cheapest one is to get a blade sampler and try a few different blades - save the Feather for last if it's in your sampler. Ultimately, you want to find the best marriage between your beard, razor, blade and technique. That could be a milder razor with a very sharp blade, or a more aggressive razor with a milder blade - or both closer to the middle. Since your technique is still a bit in flux you might not want to spend big bucks at this point on razors.

The Platinum blades are pretty sharp, so you either have a beard like wire or need to tweak your technique. Top of cheeks is a bit of a puzzle as that's a fairly flat area. I really suspect a small tweak in razor angle will increase your enjoyment ten fold. Good luck with your journey.

 

[spacemonkey42]

Great that you have been spending time working on your technique! That will serve you well regardless of where you go from here. Have you added an ATG pass with the King C?

One possible option to consider is to add a razor that would allow you to experiment with different options. Perhaps something like a Razorock Game Changer with a 76p plate that you could try and go either milder or more aggressive from there by buying different plates. Or maybe something like a Merkur Progress adjustable, which would let you try many settings. Just a thought. Happy shaves to you!

 

[BigJ]

I think you should continue working on your technique with the Swing. It’s a lovely razor.

Also, you should maybe consider that Swing razor is relatively mild, so stepping up to a more aggressive razor right now maybe it’s not the best way to stop the bloodbath.

Throughout my wet shaving journey I remember constantly increasing the level of aggressiveness, to finally settle (years after) somewhere in the middle.

However, we all prefer different things, so if you can, you should try something else until you settle to a razor that suits YOU.

+1! There are multiple ‘moving parts’ here: razor, blade and, mostly, your technique! IMO technique is the key!!

Once your technique is reasonably solid you will be able to decide on which combination or razor and blades works best for you. Changing too many things at once may delay that process. Just my $0.02!!

 

[StewB]

I would make sure my first pass is really with the grain (WTG). I used to use carts also, and I always used to shave "north to south" on my neck, because it just didn't occur to me that there was any other way, and everyone I had ever seen shave their neck did it that way, and it worked with carts. For me, though, "north to south" is actually against the grain, and shaving ATG on the first pass was one of the main contributing factors to my razor burn. Now, I shave "south to north" on my first pass, and it greatly reduced my chances for irritation.

Also, I have found that so called "mild" DE razors are trickier for me to get really good shaves, because (again, to me) these kinds of razors seem to be more sensitive to getting the angle just right. For me, more "aggressive" razors have a wider effective angle range and are easier to use. Some have said that the reason I don't get really good shaves with a "mild" DE razor is because my technique is lacking. This is very likely correct, and I'm ok with that.

 

[Francisco_Mtz]

I’ve been wet shaving for a year and a half and I think you should choose an adjustable razor instead of an EJ DE89. This will allow you to choose a larger gap for WTG passes and a smaller gap for XTG or ATG passes.

I have a Rockwell 6S, which gives me wonderful shaves despite its bulky head and unattractive industrial finish (I polish mine ); it comes with six different plates to choose from. However, I don’t think it’s practical or safe to interchange the heads between passes. Therefore, you could consider a Merkur Progress, Gillette Slim Adjustable, Gillette Fatboy, etc. I haven’t tried any of those, but I’ve read some good reviews. Or if you are interested, I am sure that there will be someone in the forum who can recommend one to you.

 

[ivan_101]

There is not really a rule about how aggressive a razor should be. When this question comes up, usually people will start recommending their personal favorite razors. I'm not sure that helps you very much, though.

You sound like a person that might benefit from an adjustable razor. Something like the Merkur Progress, maybe. The adjustment range would allow you to find that point at which the razor gives you a close shave with reasonable comfort. This is also a razor that has been around for a long time, so it is a well-proven design.

Many people find that a milder razor with a very sharp blade provides a close shave with comfort. It may require experimentation, though, to know how mild you can go.

This!

 

[tiberius]

You don't necessarily need another razor, you can train yourself on your Swing DE. But a good choice of adjustable or Rockwell 6S (or if you are short on budget, 6C will also do) can make you grasp the feeling better.

Observe these adjustable razors and those which have multiple base plates with different aggressiveness - they are only changing base plates, using the same top cap. And the blade angle relative to the handle is determined by the top cap, it won't change when you switch the base plate. A more "aggressive" base plate is either leaving a larger gap, and/or it's narrower thus expose more blade edge, both allows (but not force/require) you to tilt the handle towards safety bar (ride the bar), make it more aggressive.

But you don't have to. If you ride the cap, let the safety bar hover above your skin, you are effectively shaving with a mild version with this razor.

Now "imagine" your Swing DE have a narrower gap, and a thick safety bar, when you tried to ride the safety bar, the blade just won't engage with your skin so you are forced to shave shallow ...

Adjustable razors, razors with multiple base plates can let you "feel" the angles they intended easier, after you grasped the feeling, aggressive razors are like having a wider "operating range" for your disposal.

 

[Old Hippie]

I was able to get a very, very close shave with a single WTG pass.

I'm pulling this piece out for special attention. I'll also pull my glasses down and look at you over the top of them to say, "And this is a problem?" You're getting what you classify as a close shave, which I'm assuming also means it's "good" however you define that. Sounds like the razor you have is just fine.

Would that I could get a very, very close shave with one WTG pass!

There aren't very many razors that will give you an instantly perfect step-up in your shave quality. I'm leaving open the possibility that there may be one, but if there is none of us has found it yet. I suggest that you see where that WTG pass can take you. Even sensitive skin ought to be fine with a WTG pass every day. Give it some time, shave that way, and let your technique develop as it will. That means "technique(s)" because prep, lathering, shaving, passes, rinsing and post are all parts of the larger process. Some of them you have down. You're just getting the sight of others.

I'm usually more likely to nick myself XTG than any other pass. I also find too many passes a recipe for irritation. So I don't do XTG and just go WTG and then ATG. It works; I'm happy.

Go with what works; don't push too hard on what doesn't work. Keep it fun.

O.H.

 

[zifnab]

I stopped shaving for perfection. I shave for a good shave with comfort, I focus on my skin's health.

Guess what? I'm gonna shave again tomorrow.

 

[tomas1870]

I found very easy way to determine if some razor works for me.

It depend on how (or if) can I use it ATG. That makes different for me. WTG is not so difficult with almost everything, but to archive close shave I need ATG executed very well and clean. Many razors can do that, but many also with irritation and burning. Problem is probably lack of good technique on my side.., but some razors can do it anyway.

Usually mild to medium aggressive. And usually they are not so efficient WTG. They are slower (need full 3passes) but close easy daily shave is every time possible with zero problems and irritations.
To mention some: Karve Overlander, Henson AL13+++, Lambda Athena, Lambda Ares V2, probably new Karve Bison

 

[Happy Jack]

I was able to get a very, very close shave with a single WTG pass. However, XTG pass was a bloodbath, no matter how gently I did it, with all-day irritation afterwards.

If you can get such a close shave WTG is there any need to shave XTG?

 

[coase]

Because I shave often and have sensitive skin, I prefer to have mild razors and sharp blades. I still like the classic adjustables from Gillette best of all, but do enjoy using a Feather ASD2 with a Feather blade. I have a huge collection of razors and shaving things, but I always default to a Slim, Fatboy or the ASD2. The real secret to clean shaves is regular shaving, but not always BBS, unless your skin is tough enough to handle it.

 

[Lane101]

G'day Gentlemen,
Long-time reader, first-time poster here, trying to go back to DE shaving.
For the last 30 years, I have been using various cartridges from Gillette, for quick, hassle-free and smooth daily shaves. Last year, I spotted a KGC DE razor in a store and decided to give it a try. Of course, the DE technique was no longer there in my wrist, so I began rebuilding it slowly, using Gillette Platinum blades. However, with WTG and XTG passes, I could never attain a satisfactory shave: never as close enough, never as good enough on certain spots (top of cheeks) as with Gillette Fusion 5. Preparation, razor angles and Wilkinson blades did not make any difference. No matter how many passes, Fusion 5 could still pick some remains.
Recently, I pulled out of drawer my father's DE razor from the 70s (Swing brand, made in Sweden), with pretty flat head and flat bar instead of comb. I was able to get a very, very close shave with a single WTG pass. However, XTG pass was a bloodbath, no matter how gently I did it, with all-day irritation afterwards.
I am still determined to pursue the DE path, but apparently need a different razor. Is there a middle-way between KCG and Swing razor? Would EJ DE89 make a difference over KCG?

Thank you in advance for your input and your reccommendations.

I use a KGC DE as on of my three razors including. It is my mildest razor and requires some adjustment in technique to achieve a BBS shave. What I found is that an extra pass, where I use the "riding the cap" technique on certain parts of my face (shallower blade angle - lots of posts/videos on this on web) including the top of my cheeks, delivers a great shave. The benefit from this razor is that its blade geometry makes it almost impossible to cut myself during the shave.

Recommend you try this technique to see if it can work for you.

P.S. My other two razors are a Weishi Long Handle with moderate aggressiveness and a Razorock Adjust (Rebranded Baili) adjustable razor that has a range that is in between the two. Great adjustable that uses the similar adjustment mechanism to that used by Gillette in its 1960's -1980's adjustable razors.

 

[tm3]

you know it's your razor angle. Some experimenting is required.

This. I've been at this DE thing for almost 20 years and I still find it much harder, and requiring more care, to shave S to N as opposed to N to S.

Technique first, then equipment.