Gonna try the R41 2011 steep angle approach. Any helpful hints?

[Senshi]

Yep, steep angle for all passes. BUT, I'd like to highlight the fact that if you are using the 2011 R41, an ATG pass shouldn't be necessary. Just WTG, XTG, and "maybe" small touchup. And trust me… I have as thick a beard as anyone out there. (This is the really amazing thing about the 2011, to me).
With 2013, it's the full 3 passes. And, with both razors, all angles are steep. For me, that is.

You know, I've never done that. I almost always do a WTG, ATG and then XTG. But I think tonight's shave will be a WTG and XTGx2 going in each direction.

I usually use a steep angle for the WTG and then a shallow angle for XTG and ATG. I'm going to have to start experimenting more.

 

[Badger Bill]

You know, I've never done that. I almost always do a WTG, ATG and then XTG. But I think tonight's shave will be a WTG and XTGx2 going in each direction.

I usually use a steep angle for the WTG and then a shallow angle for XTG and ATG. I'm going to have to start experimenting more.

Interesting. yes, let us know how it goes. Most of the "2011 aficionados" will tell you, myself included, that no matter how dense your beard is, just 1 WTG and 1 XTG pass and minor touchup is all that's needed for perfect BBS with the 2011, but of course YMMV and it's always interesting to hear what works for different people! But yes, let us know how it goes for you.

 

[SciTX]

so glad to find this thread....I had a R41 2013 but traded it as I just didn't get the nice shaves I wanted, they were close but also irritating...I was using a pretty shallow angle...

then after obtaining and regularly using a NEW lc, I found myself moving more towards a steep angle shave and getting the super close AND comfortable shaves I wanted...really, some of the best shaves ever

this left me regretting getting rid of my R41 without my new found know how on steep angle shaves....so tonight while on Amazon I happened to see some R41's for $45 shipped and I hesitated for about 2 minutes and then went for it....I can't wait to get my second R41 and go back at it with the steep angle approach....then tonight I found this thread and it just confirmed what I was experiencing..thanks guys!

 

[Peter_A]

Yep, steep angle for all passes. BUT, I'd like to highlight the fact that if you are using the 2011 R41, an ATG pass shouldn't be necessary. Just WTG, XTG, and "maybe" small touchup.

+1

 

[jamesspo]

so glad to find this thread....I had a R41 2013 but traded it as I just didn't get the nice shaves I wanted, they were close but also irritating...I was using a pretty shallow angle...

then after obtaining and regularly using a NEW lc, I found myself moving more towards a steep angle shave and getting the super close AND comfortable shaves I wanted...really, some of the best shaves ever

this left me regretting getting rid of my R41 without my new found know how on steep angle shaves....so tonight while on Amazon I happened to see some R41's for $45 shipped and I hesitated for about 2 minutes and then went for it....I can't wait to get my second R41 and go back at it with the steep angle approach....then tonight I found this thread and it just confirmed what I was experiencing..thanks guys!

I'm surprised to hear one use a steep angle with a NEW LC. It's a pretty shallow angle shaver. Just to level set here, a steep angle would mean handle closer to face. Shallow angle, handle further from the face.

 

[Avincenty]

I cant do steep with my new LC, the combs are too wide. the blade edge is too far away. maybe the SC is different, havent tried.

 

[nuclearblast]

I'm surprised to hear one use a steep angle with a NEW LC. It's a pretty shallow angle shaver. Just to level set here, a steep angle would mean handle closer to face. Shallow angle, handle further from the face.

I agree. I tried the steep angle with the NEW and found that its head geometry doesn't allow it. At least this has been my experience with them.

The Old Type on the other hand works very well using a steep angle.

 

[SciTX]

well maybe I'm the odd one out....but with my NEW long, especially on my sensitive neck with my ATG pass I've gone to a steeper angle and the shaves are SO much more comfortable...and yes even on my north/south pass to start with...I brought the handle closer to my face and I prefer the end results....going from chin to ear along the jawline is bit more challenging to maintain the angle, but even then I went a bit more steep than I started

I probably started with a handle angle (north/south pass, cheek to handle) of about 45° and then reduced it maybe another 10° or so? (I'm science teacher! angles aren't my thing!)maybe this isn't steep for others, I don't know....just what works for me

 

[Codfish]

Question: Does step angle shaving slow or stop the development of other good technical skills?

My question is focused primarily on new shavers. Does it send them in a direction that actually hampers their development? Is it seen as a shortcut to the classic skills they will need for non-aggressive razors? Can it result in "cart-type" habits that need to be unlearned?

i am asking not as someone who has a dog in the fight, but to seek opinions from those who have more experience--especially new shavers who used steep angle shaving early in their DE/SE shaving careers.

One of my best early experiences here on B & B was participating in The Ultimate Shave Off, Part II. The purpose was to test a variety of razors, and post reactions to using them. Each razor was tested for 10 days. Here is an outline of the series:

Last year, I decided to compare different razors, and post about the experience, Here is the thread: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=99005

I figured it might be interesting to do it again, but with some different razors.

This year, I have the DE89L, made by Edwin Jagger, and the Open Comb Micromatic. I will include the Barber Pole versions of the Slant and Open Comb razors. I am probably going to include a vintage Gillette or two.

I am going to start on July 1st with the Micromatic, and if anyone wants to join in, they are welcome to.

1. GEM Open Comb Micromatic (Ted Pella PTFE)
2. 1912 type GEM (Ted Pella PTFE)
3. Merkur Barber Pole Open Comb (12C) (Red Personna)
4. Edwin Jagger DE89L (Feather)
5. Gillette Tuckaway (Derby)
6. Gillette Red Tip TTO (Astra)
7. Gillette SLIM Adjustable (Astra)
8. Merkur Futur (Dorco ST 301)
9. Merkur Barber Pole Slant Bar razor. (Red Personna)
10. Schick Injector

You might be thinking, why not use the same make of blade throughout? The answer, at least in my case, is that I have found some blades work better in some razors than others.

My reason for mentioning this is that I had nine of the ten razors at home. Most of them I had tried, found lacking and put in a drawer after two or three days while I looked for a razor that would give better results. I thought that equipment was more important than technique, As a result, my development of good technique that could be used successfully with any razor was delayed by several months.

Participating in the Shave Off made me develop these skills, and by the end, I had learned how to shave. I credit variety and evaluation skills with my progress. Thus my questions. Is early steep angle shaving slowing down progress of developing well-rounded technique?

 

[cpacamper]

Question: Does step angle shaving slow or stop the development of other good technique skills?

My question is focused primarily on new shavers. Does it send them in a direction that actually hampers their development? Is it seen as a shortcut to the classic skills they will need for non-aggressive razors?

As a relative newbie I can attest to the fact that there are no shortcuts to the classic skills of finding optimum pressure and angle for efficient, effective shaves. This steep angle method is but one possibly optimal method to explore.

 

[rgraham]

I mostly use the steep angle. But, I'm not sure if I don't change it for different areas of my face during the shave, or the three passes. I just do what has become the way I do it. Since becoming adept with the R41, I really don't use any other razor. The results are just so much more superior in my estimation, that using my other razors is just for sport.
My main thought while shaving with this razor is to keep the pressure super light. I use the original handle, and almost feel as if I'm barely holding on to it. This requires a pretty quick stroke in most areas, but I do get pretty slow and deliberate around the nose and under the chin. It can be a bit bouncy, but a sharp blade usually takes care of that. I just use the most efficient angle that cuts the beard effectively. I'm pretty sure it's not a shallow angle most of the time.

 

[ross0133]

I've rested my 2013 R41 for now and have gone back to my Fatboy.

Blades do seem to lose their edge much more quickly barley getting me to 3 shaves. Whilst results were very good I still have to be convinced that they are any better (in my case anyway) than an adjustable that can be dialled to suit.

Lots of hype around the R41 but regardless of steep or shallow angle it's what works for best for the individual. Razor or angle.

Thats the beauty with this pleasurable form of shaving, lots of variables from prep, shave to balm.

Mix and and match to suit.

If it dos not work for someone simply move on.

Enjoy!!

 

[Codfish]

I've rested my 2013 R41 for now and have gone back to my Fatboy.

Blades do seem to lose their edge much more quickly barley getting me to 3 shaves. Whilst results were very good I still have to be convinced that they are any better (in my case anyway) than an adjustable that can be dialled to suit.

Lots of hype around the R41 but regardless of steep or shallow angle it's what works for best for the individual. Razor or angle.
Thats the beauty with this pleasurable form of shaving, lots of variables from prep, shave to balm.
Mix and and match to suit.
If it dos not work for someone simply move on.
Enjoy!!

+1 Well said!

The R41 is notorious for being hard on blades. I get one with a Feather, 2 with most others and 3 with my favorite. I'm resigned to the fact and don't mind it.

The R41 is a hype magnet. Early on members bragged about their abilities with it, and there was such a macho aura that shavers would tell stories about how they started using it within the first month of DE shaving and recommended it to other newbies as a learning tool.

Although I use the R41 in its variations almost exclusively, It's nice to be able to do short term trades with other members and know that I have the ability to handle any DE with a few day's practice, This is a pleasurable hobby once you've mastered the basics. I find a certain Zen slice of time whenever I take the time to shave (except when I get a nick).

 

[chamm]

I can't say I've noticed shorter life on my blades with the R41, or any other razor for that matter. That doesn't mean it's not the case. I try to keep pretty careful track of how many uses I get from each blade.

That being said, if I got one use out of every blade, ever, it would still be by far the least expensive shaving method for me.

I will say this: Since I started really focusing on the steep angle technique, I've found that my blade choice, for me, seems to be less important. When I was using the R41 just like a regular razor, my regular blade was Persona Lab. Any time I tried to deviate from that, I got nicks, cuts, weepers and irritation. Now that I'm focusing on the steep angle, (and also quick strokes, thanks to this thread) I've found that I can pop just about any blade into the razor and get excellent results. I might even go back to one of my perilous Feather blades!

 

[Codfish]

POSTSCRIPT: I gave up on trying to learn the steep angle approach two days ago. It has nothing to do with the validity of the approach, but more to do with the fact that

1. It involves a learning curve for me
2. It has little if any payoff for me personally, since I am fine with a more classical style and get great shaves with it.

I encourage the shavers who are interested to try the steep angle approach. I did get some very good shaves with it--but not as good as my other style. I also paid a price in blood for some of the shaves. I did find that I had to re-learn some old habits (that worked well)--thus my throwing in the towel.

 

[hthomas]

POSTSCRIPT: I gave up on trying to learn the steep angle approach two days ago.
[/LIST]

Sorry to hear that. All of you guys in this tread have helped me to explore the angles with my R41. The short fast strokes ... My shaving experience even better, as a result. I haven't used another razor since I starting exploring with you, while reading this tread.
I haven't got it down yet, but a few times it's just oh...Wow !

 

[cpacamper]

POSTSCRIPT: I gave up on trying to learn the steep angle approach two days ago. It has nothing to do with the validity of the approach, but more to do with the fact that

1. It involves a learning curve for me
2. ihas little if any payoff.

Thanks for sharing your experiences. Maybe I'll go back and try the "classic" angle again.

 

[bosseb]

This whole steep angle approach is totally mind boggling to me.

I barely have the nerve to use my old Mühle (Fatip) the ordinary way with a Polsilver SI with 25 shaves on it. I cannot get over the fact that I'm an old fogie with the skin of a schoolgirl...

View attachment 460120​

 

[hthomas]

Now you can start maximizing the duration of your BBS, by tuning your blade choice. For a normal BBS, but easier to have a smooth shave, go sharper. For cutting the beard hair deeper down, (but amazingly without in-growns), much longer lasting BBS, but more skill required for a very smooth shave, go less-sharp. Smooth is a mandatory. For example, Super Iridiums give me an easy smooth shave even with mediocre prep. Dorcos require better prep and more care to get a very smooth shave (very attainable though), but the BBSs lasts much much longer.

I'm not sure what you are saying here.
I tried Dorcos st-301's. I got a smooth shave. Dorcos are good for 1 maybe 2 shaves as a rule. However a few hours after the shave I have more stubble than after using the Polsilver.

I like Dorcos. It's just with the number of shave I get with the polsilver's, they are cheaper...

 

[fuzzydoesit]

I have been trying the steep angle with my Old Type (Last weekend's $1 yard sale find). I shimmed it with two shims and went steep. The shaves have been very good and quite efficient. I wish that it would go steeper. This is my second DE and I have been using the shallow angle approach with my EJ89 thus far. Since I dabble in woodworking, I can see the logic of a more "scraper" approach, especially where the grain (hair) changes direction erratically. My hypothesis is that you get less lifting of the hair (tear out) this way and reduce that as a source of irritation. The angle forces the hair down slightly more. This makes sense with any ATG passes especially. I am now trying to decide if I should go with the R41, or wait for the RR Slant for my next purchase. The EJ89 needs the ATG and multiple passes to get me smooth enough for my liking. I don't think that I will end up as a collector and the wife will only turn a blind eye to so many purchases.