Badger is better than boar

[jwilock]

In the past few weeks I've bought a Semogue SOC and a 610 and an Omega 49. Used each four times, then circled back through them again. My quick observation is that they lather like crazy - at least the equal of any of my Badgers. They also feel fine on my face, all three of them being a bit different, but feeling just fine. The biggest difference I find is in the amount of lather they hold. I had to reload when I started using these. Now I've learned to really load them up. But it's quite evident to me when I hold them under running water to rinse them out. The boars all rinse out cleanly in seconds. There's little or no effort required to get lather out of them. All the badgers on the other hand require far longer, with a bit of gentle squeezing and "palm lathering" and multiple rinses to clean them up. There also is a somewhat "softer" feel to my badgers. Maybe not so much "soft" as full, or maybe luxurious. Can't describe it exactly but I do prefer the feel a little.

Having said all that, if budget was an issue I would happily use a boar. In fact, I will happily use my boars on occasion even though I've got some nice badgers that I use too.

 

[gus1942]

Why wood you use a board brush?

Be nice.

 

[Blondie]

So another couple of weeks, and maybe three more shaves with the 620. Still not getting enough lather for more than two passes. Maybe I don't have the patience for these things. I have been using it exclusively with MWF, maybe I will try a different soap and see if that makes a difference...

 

[mdevine]

So another couple of weeks, and maybe three more shaves with the 620. Still not getting enough lather for more than two passes. Maybe I don't have the patience for these things. I have been using it exclusively with MWF, maybe I will try a different soap and see if that makes a difference...

Phil,

I think you are on the right track with another soap. I tend to get less with MWF and a boar than some others. I find that AoS, Mike's and Martin de Candre all perform well with boars.

Mike

 

[Blondie]

Phil,

I think you are on the right track with another soap. I tend to get less with MWF and a boar than some others. I find that AoS, Mike's and Martin de Candre all perform well with boars.

Mike

Yeah, I get a lot of lather in the beginning, but it all seems to come out in the first and second pass. That's not to say MWF is a bad soap, I think it is fantastic with my badgers.

 

[DEGuy]

I have Omega's 10049, too big for me, and 10083 (slightly smaller than the 49 and just right); I find superior lather with them compared with my super and silver top badger brushes. I'm sold on boar brushes--they are nothing like they used to be decades ago, when they felt like whisk brooms. I have found that a boar brush, for me, has to be a larger brush; the small boar brushes simply don't hold enough lather for me. Omega's 10083 feels and performs perfectly and gets better with use. It cost me $14 with shipping. My badgers were a lot more money and I'd not have gone badger mad had I known the performance of boar-bristle brushes. I've tried smaller Omega boar brushes and wouldn't buy smaller/shorter boar brushes again.

 

[DEGuy]

Boar for harder soaps
Badger for softer soaps.

Here's what I found today: I had been using Mitchell's Woolfat and decided that I'd switched back to Arko. I felt Mitchell's lather was not moist enough to suit me. To my surprise, my boar brush, Omega 10083, did not produce a sufficiently moist lather. So I got my badger brush and made a wonderfully moist lather. It seems to me that Boar is good for harder soaps. And Mitchell's is, not hard, but harder than Arko. But when using a softer soap, like Arko, I prefer badger. I like both brushes, but I found that the brushes performs differently depending on the hardness of the soap.

 

[inspiringK]

So another couple of weeks, and maybe three more shaves with the 620. Still not getting enough lather for more than two passes. Maybe I don't have the patience for these things. I have been using it exclusively with MWF, maybe I will try a different soap and see if that makes a difference...

Seems like you have given them a fair shake. If they still haven't worked for you after trying a different soap, then badger is undoubtedly better than boar.......... for you.

Trying a different soap is a good option (though it doesn't change the fact that your boar brush has failed on the MWF). Would it be totally sacrilegious to double load the brush? Do a short load on MWF and lather for first pass, short reload on puck and lather second pass, then a short reload before creating lather for the third pass.

EDIT: By the by, I used a 24mm boar knot from TGN to face lather JM Fraser (a soft cream) today and love the feel of that brush.

 

[Blondie]

Seems like you have given them a fair shake. If they still haven't worked for you after trying a different soap, then badger is undoubtedly better than boar.......... for you.

Trying a different soap is a good option (though it doesn't change the fact that your boar brush has failed on the MWF). Would it be totally sacrilegious to double load the brush? Do a short load on MWF and lather for first pass, short reload on puck and lather second pass, then a short reload before creating lather for the third pass.

I have resorted to doing that when I use the Semogue. Not ideal, but I like many things about the brush. It makes plenty of lather, and I always tend to really load whether with boar or badger. I truly just think boars have such a high level of flow through, that they make as much lather as a badger, but exhaust it much more quickly. My thoughts are that once the maximum number of bristles have split, it may hold on to more lather.

 

[Blondie]

Alright, here is my last post in this thread, and I think I can put this argument to rest. I believe I have given the Semogue a fair shake. I will still use it from time to time, but my original statement stands. BADGER IS BETTER THAN BOAR!!! It's like this...I do woodworking as well, and certain tools are better:



You see that set of saws costs $150.00, for 4 saws. They cut on the pull stroke only and have TPI ranging from 18 to 32. I can cut wood and not have to sand it. I cut wood faster than some with a power saw, and get better, finer cuts.

Then you have this:



12 TPI, and 12.00. I can buy ten of them for the price of the Japanese saws above. I will have to sand, cut slow, and generally have less precise work and take longer to complete a project with a cheaper tool. No YMMV, no to each his own, one tool is better than the other... Much like,

Badger is better than boar...

Peace, and that's all I have to say about that

 

[SliceOfLife]

Dense 2 band badger makes the best quality lather for me, followed by moderate 2 band badger, followed by dense 3 bands, followed by moderate 3 bands followed by good maker (semogue is really the only one I use and I haven't found a "bad" one, though I hear Omega's are comparable) boars, followed by low density or excessively high lofted 3band and very low density 2 band (the $20 2 bands that were all over eBay a couple years back and similar).

Basically a great badger (rooney finest) absolutely crushes boars. No contest at all. A good badger (Chubby Best, M&F 2 band, TGN Finest) handily beats boars. An acceptable badger (Colonel, Berkeley) is still noticeably above boars.

Boars beat badgers in their price range ($20 badgers tend to be pretty horrible), but not much else. I like boars in theory. That they "level up" with use appeals to the gamer in me. Hell I've had a decent sized collection, and I have no plans to get rid of my SOC, but I've had a hundred or more boar brush shaves, and every single one has been inferior to my average badger brush shave. There is that significant a difference in the lather quality.

Some people like boar. I wanted to. I tried to. I don't. Bear in mind I'm not the authority on brushes. I know what I like in lather, and boars aren't as effective at making it, sadly. They are perfectly useable, but I don't see a reason to when something that makes my shave better is readily available. Every month or so I do still get the urge to reconfirm my position and I break out a boar again. And the shaves are 'OK'. The problem (for boars) is I'm used to shaves way, way beyond 'OK' these days. So 'OK' is a pretty big disappointment.


On a funny note, about 2 years ago I had a very similar thread to this one. Went similarly if I recall. I did some tests of lathering identically with 620 and a handful of other boars vs a badger on pretty much the same platform as yours (I barely get 2 good passes out of a boar). I demonstrated how much less lather I got out of boars by lathering strops. The badger brushes (even smaller ones) lathered 50-100% more surface than the boars, as well as having visually apparent superior lather structure. I think I even had videos of myself lathering to prove that the boars got just as much work (if not more) than the badgers.

 

[Anthony_MQ]

Here is my humble contribution...

About two years ago, I purchased a pair of Semogue boar brushes. The novelty made them interesting for the first few shaves, but I quickly decided they weren't really at par with the badgers in my den. I did, however, resist selling them and have recently become a bit obsessed with the whole hair splitting thing and softness of tips.

For the past 2 weeks, I have been doing a daily "test" lather with the boar brushes and letting them dry in the sun. Sometimes twice daily. I've not yet had a shave, but the feeling on my hand has changed rather dramatically. I plan to keep at this for another month.

What I'm trying to replicate is the experience of a regular guy who uses his boar brush daily for years and comes to love the thing. I have read enough testimonials. The average B&B member probably has over a dozen brushes in his rotation. Just do the math.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Yeah. I usually did 20-30 lathers and dries before I even started shaving with most boars (other than an initial shave to see how the brush felt out of box). I was a bit of a Soap hoarder for awhile, I tried to test every soap that wasn't absurdly expensive that had any kind of positive feedback. Virtually all of them were disappointments, and became either hand soaps or "Brush break-in" soaps. I've gone through probably 20 years worth of shaving soaps breaking in boars I bought (and washing badgers)

They do change a lot with break-in. I've found that even 100+ lather/dries later, they still produce lather that is more airy than what all but the worst badgers produce, as well as producing much, much less lather for the amount of product used.

I have an SOC and only recently sold my 2010LE just because I never used it. Top tier brushes among boars in my opinion, so I don't think I've given boars anything less than every possible chance to prove themselves. They just are inferior as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Loric]

I remember Ian's tests and they were quite informative. I too like ultra dense two band badgers better than all but a couple boars. Though the extra dense 2011 LE Semogue and ironically enough the almost equally dense TGN boar are firmly planted in my rotation. I feel these two perform almost as good as my favorite badgers, close enough that I can buy into user error being the difference. I'll use the boars gladly, but I have to admit that they are "something else" along with my sythetic and kabuki brushes to my badgers.

Really I think its more important to know what you like, than to have "the best brush". If boars give you the perfect shave, then more power to you, it badger does it for you good, If some stupid poorly constructed synthetic steps in and shakes things up (on most but not all soaps)....well its for the better.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Actually as I remember, badger style synths work pretty damn well. They just have ZERO face feel. It's like having a fan blowing on your face. I didn't like that. I'm guessing they may have trouble loading harder soaps too. I didn't spend that much time with mine because I couldn't get past how it felt, but I remember it lathered really well.


Boar style synths simply demolish soaps. You could load them with asphalt if you wanted. They are HORRIBLE face lathering though (painful and don't work). They bowl lather like monsters, but that's mainly because you have half a freaking puck of soap on them each time.



I seem to remember that I wasn't impressed with my tgn boar (mind you this was like 2.5 years ago, could be a different knot now). Long hairs, not enough difference in the length, tips NEVER broke in. It was probably the worst boar I ever used (other than the 6/$4 boars I got from that china supplier just to see em, the counterfeit Omega's with the housepainted wood handles that fell apart when you used them)


What is a Kabuki brush?

 

[Loric]

I set my TNG boar at about 50 or 55MM I cant remember and yes the tips are not as soft as the Semogue, but I like the skirtch they have now. More so than Simpson best skritch. They mostly broke in, but there is just that little something left on mine. Plus its super dense at least by boar standards. I enjoy it.

Kabuki brushes are make up brushes. I have not been up to spending tones of loot on new badgers, but some Kabukis are really cheap and surprisingly good for the price... some are terrible... but the good ones are fun to play with for $10 or $20 dollars.

Another Kabuki thread.

 

[cryhavoc]

Alright, here is my last post in this thread, and I think I can put this argument to rest. I believe I have given the Semogue a fair shake. I will still use it from time to time, but my original statement stands. BADGER IS BETTER THAN BOAR!!! It's like this...I do woodworking as well, and certain tools are better:

View attachment 260442

You see that set of saws costs $150.00, for 4 saws. They cut on the pull stroke only and have TPI ranging from 18 to 32. I can cut wood and not have to sand it. I cut wood faster than some with a power saw, and get better, finer cuts.

Then you have this:

View attachment 260444

12 TPI, and 12.00. I can buy ten of them for the price of the Japanese saws above. I will have to sand, cut slow, and generally have less precise work and take longer to complete a project with a cheaper tool. No YMMV, no to each his own, one tool is better than the other... Much like,

Badger is better than boar...

Peace, and that's all I have to say about that

I understand what you are saying but you are wrong

 

[takeshi]

Alright, here is my last post in this thread, and I think I can put this argument to rest. I believe I have given the Semogue a fair shake. I will still use it from time to time, but my original statement stands. BADGER IS BETTER THAN BOAR!!!

You're certainly entitled to your own opinion but yelling doesn't make it a fact. Not sure why you're tilting at this windmill. If badgers are better for you, great. No need to evangelize. Others can and should decide for themselves based on first hand experience -- not on someone's post in uppercase and bolded text. If I recall correctly your concern in your OP was that newbies would be misled. If that's the case then it's very misleading to present badgers as the end-all-be-all in brushes for every person out there.

It's like this...I do woodworking as well, and certain tools are better

Again, better is always highly subjective and dependent on context no matter what the topic. To continue with your analogy, the Japanese saws may be of higher quality than the inexpensive example and they may produce cleaner cuts than power tools. However, one tool does not work for all situations no matter how nice the tool may be.

Your analogy falls flat because water, skin, beards and such do vary from person to person and situation to situation. YMMV very much applies to wet shaving whether you understand or not. Again, if badgers are best for you, great. That doesn't mean that they're best for everyone out there.

I think where you're failing to understand is that when comparing two items on specific points you can certainly declare one to be better than the other. However, the importance of those points (and the importance of other points that you may or may not be considering) for comparison is entirely subjective. Don't assume that your needs/wants/situation are universal no matter what the topic.

 

[BrookR1]

As a generally type B personality, I can honestly say I ENJOY USING BOTH DAGNABBIT!

I use one or the other depending on my mood and after my horrible experience with using a VDH boar, I have warmed up to boars and now appreciate them. I give them to relatives that show a passing interest in DE shaving.

 

[El-a-Menthol]

But what about horse, having trades of both badger (water retention) and boar (firmness).
And what about synthetics, in particular the fast drying Mühle synthetic brush, which is not inferior to most brushes, including high end brushes.
I have a good silvertip brush, and everything about it is great except it's strongest point, and here is where preference comes into play:
it holds too much water. It's water retention is really good.
It's so good there is no exact number of shakes before I can bring it to a soap, after soaking and shaking a few times there's often still so much water in it. Shake some more, still too much. Again. Again. Again. Too little. (Now I have to add water.)
And I'm not exactly a inexperienced shaver. It's not a bad brush either. And it's not that I can't get good results from it.
It just takes more concentration. With such a fancy brush it should take less concentration and work.
IMO, My Vie-Long brush with custom loft is absolutely superior to my Mühle silvertip.
However, I will be buying Mühle's synthetic and a Semogue Owners Club on the future and create my own holy trinity.