What a microscope showed me about what shaving does to my edge

[Herrenberg]

If you were to look up my newbie intro thread, and I don't know why you should, you would find that I came to straight razor shaving out of an interest in sharpening. Sharpening a straight razor seemed like the ultimate challenge, and what good is that if you don't shave with it?

Naturally I have since discovered the pleasures of straight razor shaving, and I don't think a cartridge razor will be touching my face again. But, as a steel-and-sharpening man, I hungered to know what was going on with those edges. So I got a microscope.

I don't mean one of those "digital microscope" things you can get for $25 on Amazon. I had one of those, and I wasn't getting anything out of it that a 12X lighted loupe would not provide. I mean the real thing. It took me a while to learn the difference. "Digital microscopes" zoom in by increasing the size of pixels. Microscopes do that optically.

So I put a razor I've used a bunch under the microscope. This is a razor I've stropped on 0.1 micron pasted balsa after every shave, and stropped on leather before. I was not entirely prepared for what I discovered, which was edge damage from just shaving.

The heel:
.

The toe:



The middle:



Yes, I use the heel and toe a lot. I have hollows in my neck. I didn't touch this razor on anything except my face. You can see what shaving did to it.

It's not unexpected. Facial hair is harsh. But it does seem to support the idea that you need to go back to the stones after a time of doing this sort of damage to the delicate edge.

 

[stone and strop]

Yep, microscopes will show you what's really going on at the business end.
They are very useful for testing, a must really.

 

[DrPDPT]

If you were to look up my newbie intro thread, and I don't know why you should, you would find that I came to straight razor shaving out of an interest in sharpening. Sharpening a straight razor seemed like the ultimate challenge, and what good is that if you don't shave with it?

Naturally I have since discovered the pleasures of straight razor shaving, and I don't think a cartridge razor will be touching my face again. But, as a steel-and-sharpening man, I hungered to know what was going on with those edges. So I got a microscope.

I don't mean one of those "digital microscope" things you can get for $25 on Amazon. I had one of those, and I wasn't getting anything out of it that a 12X lighted loupe would not provide. I mean the real thing. It took me a while to learn the difference. "Digital microscopes" zoom in by increasing the size of pixels. Microscopes do that optically.

So I put a razor I've used a bunch under the microscope. This is a razor I've stropped on 0.1 micron pasted balsa after every shave, and stropped on leather before. I was not entirely prepared for what I discovered, which was edge damage from just shaving.

The heel:
View attachment 1203023.

The toe:

View attachment 1203025

The middle:

View attachment 1203026

Yes, I use the heel and toe a lot. I have hollows in my neck. I didn't touch this razor on anything except my face. You can see what shaving did to it.

It's not unexpected. Facial hair is harsh. But it does seem to support the idea that you need to go back to the stones after a time of doing this sort of damage to the delicate edge.

The pictures look awesome. What power of magnification were you using?

 

[Herrenberg]

The pictures look awesome. What power of magnification were you using?

Looks like 75x. It will go to 180x, but doing that hasn't carried any more useful lessons so far.

 

[DrStrange]

If you were to look up my newbie intro thread, and I don't know why you should, you would find that I came to straight razor shaving out of an interest in sharpening. Sharpening a straight razor seemed like the ultimate challenge, and what good is that if you don't shave with it?

Naturally I have since discovered the pleasures of straight razor shaving, and I don't think a cartridge razor will be touching my face again. But, as a steel-and-sharpening man, I hungered to know what was going on with those edges. So I got a microscope.

I don't mean one of those "digital microscope" things you can get for $25 on Amazon. I had one of those, and I wasn't getting anything out of it that a 12X lighted loupe would not provide. I mean the real thing. It took me a while to learn the difference. "Digital microscopes" zoom in by increasing the size of pixels. Microscopes do that optically.

So I put a razor I've used a bunch under the microscope. This is a razor I've stropped on 0.1 micron pasted balsa after every shave, and stropped on leather before. I was not entirely prepared for what I discovered, which was edge damage from just shaving.

The heel:
View attachment 1203023.

The toe:

View attachment 1203025

The middle:

View attachment 1203026

Yes, I use the heel and toe a lot. I have hollows in my neck. I didn't touch this razor on anything except my face. You can see what shaving did to it.

It's not unexpected. Facial hair is harsh. But it does seem to support the idea that you need to go back to the stones after a time of doing this sort of damage to the delicate edge.

If you're going to attribute the damage to the shave,
then you need before and after pictures.

 

[Herrenberg]

If you're going to attribute the damage to the shave,
then you need before and after pictures.

Strictly speaking, from a purely scientific point of view, yes. However, acquiring the microscope is a more recent event than my last honing, so not currently possible. I may attempt the before and after with my next honing, though I could never prove that the edge had touched nothing else without attaching a 24 hour LifeCam, and keeping the razor under guard when I was not in its presence. Nonetheless, I will appeal to reason here. I've touched razor edges to inappropriate things, and the results did not look anything like this. They were much more drastic. The toe and middle pictures show little divots that seem like very plausible hair-based damage, and where else might such things have come from?

 

[DrStrange]

Strictly speaking, from a purely scientific point of view, yes. However, acquiring the microscope is a more recent event than my last honing, so not currently possible. I may attempt the before and after with my next honing, though I could never prove that the edge had touched nothing else without attaching a 24 hour LifeCam, and keeping the razor under guard when I was not in its presence. Nonetheless, I will appeal to reason here. I've touched razor edges to inappropriate things, and the results did not look anything like this. They were much more drastic. The toe and middle pictures show little divots that seem like very plausible hair-based damage, and where else might such things have come from?

They may have been honed and stropped to that condition.

 

[Herrenberg]

They may have been honed and stropped to that condition.

Well, I can't rule it out, though the correlation of damage points with the parts of the razor I use most is at least an interesting data point for the case against. Still, skepticism is a useful quality, and I won't cavil. The experiment you implicitly propose is appealing to me, and I'll give it a try.

 

[RenoRichard]

@Herrenberg- If you have access to a good library, you would likely be interested in reading this article that appeared in Science last summer. Essentially, the researchers found that microchipping occurs at a razor's edge, along with some dulling and rounding, which was an expectation.
How hair deforms steel
Science 07 Aug 2020:
Vol. 369, Issue 6504, pp. 689-694

 

[rbscebu]

The micro pictures are interesting. Early this year I found, using a microscope, that the edge of one of my SR's ad a "huge" chip in it - about 2um to 3um deep. I was worried about this so raised the matter here on B&B.

One of the questions that I was asked was "Does the chip affect the shave quality?" My answer was no. Then it was pointed out to me that shave quality was all that mattered. If the chip doesn't affect the shave quality, don't worry about it.

Sometimes it's better not to look too closely at your SR edge. Ignorance can be bliss. I stopped worrying about my "huge" chip and continued shaving with that edge and maintaining it after every shave with about 50 laps on a 0.1um hanging balsa strop. After about 20 to 30 more shaves with that razor, there was no chip to be seen.

 

[rbscebu]

@Herrenberg from the looks of the scratch marks on your bevel edge, I tend to think that the blade's last honing progression was not that good. If done well and finished off on 0.5um, 0.25um and 0.1um diamond pasted balsa strops, there should be no visible scratch marks on the bevel when using an optical microscope.

The reason for this is due to the wavelength of visible light that is about 300nm.

 

[JohnEzra]

@Herrenberg from the looks of the scratch marks on your bevel edge, I tend to think that the blade's last honing progression was not that good. If done well and finished off on 0.5um, 0.25um and 0.1um diamond pasted balsa strops, there should be no visible scratch marks on the bevel when using an optical microscope.

The reason for this is due to the wavelength of visible light that is about 300nm.

This is incorrect. Visible light is in the range of 400-700 nanometers, and a good optical microscope can completely resolve particles down to half the size of the wavelength of the light source.

In this case we are not even talking about resolving individual particles from one another, we are talking about seeing chips in the silhouette of the razor and seeing scratches in a surface, both much easier tasks than resolving particles.

With proper lighting and a good microscope the scratches left by .1 micron diamond paste in balsa would be visible.

 

[Straight up]

Herrenberg, you haven't told us much about the razor in question. Is it brand new, a restored classic, or maybe a Gold Dollar? The quality of the steel and the age may also shed some light on the apparent damage.

Remember that magnification isn't the real issue when using a microscope, it's the resolution. Curious about this subject then have a look at the page.

 

[Tomo]

Now I learn that I need a microscope. Just when I thought that I had all the shaving gear one could ever possibly have.

 

[bluesman 7]

This is a razor I've stropped on 0.1 micron pasted balsa after every shave, and stropped on leather before. I was not entirely prepared for what I discovered, which was edge damage from just shaving.


It's not unexpected. Facial hair is harsh. But it does seem to support the idea that you need to go back to the stones after a time of doing this sort of damage to the delicate edge.

Interesting thread. I was hoping for something along these lines just yesterday.

I often hear of people touching up with just .1µm paste or a periodic 12k or other finishing hone, and claim to be able to do this indefinitely.

I often go ~100 shaves before hitting anything other than clean strops. After ~100 shaves, honing seems to bring out all the damage from those ~100 shaves and I usually go down to 3k to get rid of the damage.

I have often wanted to see an edge that was maintained with only fine pastes or just a periodic finisher after ~100 shaves to see if the fine finishers are actually keeping up with the damage done with normal stropping and shaving. I posit that in the end the same amount of steel needs to be removed for a given amount of shaving whether it be with an often used fine medium or a periodic 'full' honing session and question whether that is possible with such fine finishers. Of course all of this is totally subjective as we all shave and maintain our razors differently

 

[Herrenberg]

Herrenberg, you haven't told us much about the razor in question. Is it brand new, a restored classic, or maybe a Gold Dollar? The quality of the steel and the age may also shed some light on the apparent damage.

The razor is an Iwasaki Kamisori, bought new in the last year. I dinged the front on the faucet soon after I got it, and ground it down to the angle you can see in the toe picture. Then I took it through a honing and stropping progression. Using the 12x loupe, all I had at the time, the edge looked completely straight and clean.

 

[Herrenberg]

The micro pictures are interesting. Early this year I found, using a microscope, that the edge of one of my SR's ad a "huge" chip in it - about 2um to 3um deep. I was worried about this so raised the matter here on B&B.

One of the questions that I was asked was "Does the chip affect the shave quality?" My answer was no. Then it was pointed out to me that shave quality was all that mattered. If the chip doesn't affect the shave quality, don't worry about it.

Sometimes it's better not to look too closely at your SR edge. Ignorance can be bliss. I stopped worrying about my "huge" chip and continued shaving with that edge and maintaining it after every shave with about 50 laps on a 0.1um hanging balsa strop. After about 20 to 30 more shaves with that razor, there was no chip to be seen.

It's a point. As far as I can tell, the main effect is an increase in skin irritation. Of course, that's my skin, and others might be less (or more) bothered.

It's hard to tell, though, especially with the heel and toe work I use on my neck hollows. If it's less good, does that mean I was less adept with my shave, or that the blade is not doing as good a job? It's something I could only sort out by lots of keeping track and paying attention.

 

[Herrenberg]

@Herrenberg from the looks of the scratch marks on your bevel edge, I tend to think that the blade's last honing progression was not that good. If done well and finished off on 0.5um, 0.25um and 0.1um diamond pasted balsa strops, there should be no visible scratch marks on the bevel when using an optical microscope.

Well, that's possible. It was my first kamisori, and I don't remember exactly when I last honed it. It could have been, for example, before I made the acrylic-mounted balsa strops. I'll see if I can do better this time. It will really help to be able to check on the microscope at each stage.

 

[Srdjan]

Pictures look really good. I'll be following your experiment along.

Some observations...

There looks to be a micro bevel on the razor, which I know practically cannot be the case. What happened there?

This type of damage can actually be seen with a 10-12x loupe (a really good one) when the steel has problems (really major ones). It is exaggerated, so visible on lower magnification, because the edge collapses faster. This doesn't relate to your experiment directly, but it does prove that the damage pattern matches. Hence, yes, hair is damaging to the steel, in that exact pattern, there is no doubt about it.

I feel you should also try to finish the razor on a finishing stone only, and not use pastes and sprays in your stropping routine.. If possible - and then compare the results.

Best of luck!

Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk

 

[kohalajohn]

Sometimes it's better not to look too closely at your SR edge. Ignorance can be bliss. I stopped worrying about my "huge" chip and continued shaving with that edge and maintaining it after every shave with about 50 laps on a 0.1um hanging balsa strop. After about 20 to 30 more shaves with that razor, there was no chip to be seen.
[/QUOTE]



Interesting. I recently found a chip. The razor shaves well, so if I hadn't happened to be checking the edge with my loup, I would not have known about it.

I was going to remove the chip. reset the bevel and work all the way up. But I'll try just giving it time and seeing if ongoing use of the pasted balsa will remove it.