Opinions on Solingen "First Class"

Hello everyone!.

I am new to this forum and to straight razor shaving and after being a lurker for a few days I must say two things:

1.- It is one of the finest and smoothest forums I have come across in the net.

2.- I really regret not having found you before!.

I wished I could have found you before and asked before buying and NOT after I have done so.

Well, said that I would like to know your opinion on the following straight razor:

http://cgi.ebay.es/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tToStoreCat&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget

After receiving the razor it did not looked to me -Top quality- neither -professional- as the seller states.

I am new to straight razor saving, but I am a long time aficionado to watchmaking, and in my opinion and once in my hands it has very bad finishing and many small defects, so not such a -top quality- item.

I think I have learn Solingen is NOT synonym of quality.

Thank you for your opinions.
Ro

Sorry to hear about this. You always have to be wary of new razors on ebay, because so many of them are made in Pakistan and misleadingly marked in order to confuse the buyer. You're not the first member to spring for a bad razor before finding this forum. Modern genuine Solingen razors have the brand on the shank. There were some no-name Solingens back in the straight razor heyday because several of the Solingen firms made small runs for hardware stores and barber shops etc, but that really isn't the case anymore. As far as I know, the only Solingen firm left is Dovo, who also makes razors for other brands (C-Mon, Fromm, and possibly Zwilling Friodurs). There's also a guy named Heribert Wacker that's making razors in his shop under a variety of names (Wacker, Jungmeister, and recently Dorko).

Is it just the razor that is bad, or the strop too? I've got a Streich-Reimen paddle strop that seems fine, so hopefully yours is a real one and not a fake.

I thought Giesen & Forsthoff also made razors.

I could be mistaken, but I was under the impression that G&F straights are actually made under contract by Dovo. The only new G&F razors I've seen for sale over here in the US are the Timor and the Hamburg Ring. The current-production C-Mon "Blackie" razor seems quite similar to the Timor, and I thought that the C-Mon razors were made by Dovo. But maybe I'm wrong, and they're made by G&F instead. hmmm...

Edit: Classic Shaving lists the G&F razors on the "Dovo" page. Not sure what this really means...

Actually, the razor you have appears to be a quality razor. Its hard to say whether its new or vintage or who actually manyfactured it. If you are judging quality by the plastic scales or sloppyness of the print on the blade, don't because they all have that characteristic unless you get custom scales anyway. The important thing is does it shave well? It will probably require some honing to get it shave ready. If you are not up to the task send it out to someone who is. Don't ruin a good razor by practicing your honing with it.

Also, welcome to the site, I'm a watch collector and sometime watch tinkerer also.

Solingen is just a town in Germany famous for cutlery/razors etc. A razor, knife or whatever is only, AFAIK, allowed to have Solingen on it when made in Solingen. Occasionally you'll even find a Solingen firm selling stuff not made in Solingen and actually mentioning it explicitly in order not to break the law.

Just think of Bordeaux wines: you got Grand Cru Classe but also cheap and chearful clarets. Same with razors, knives etc.

If you look here: http://www.schneidwaren-solingen.de/shop/suche.htm

you'll see they mention for every item whether or not it was made in Solingen. Just type" Rasiermesser" and you'll find some razors.

If you look at the Wacker razors you'll see it reads: Dieser Artikel wird nicht in Solingen gefertigt! meaning: this item is not made in Solingen.

Good luck with your razor: hone it strop it and shave with it before you judge it.

I've seen that same "First Class" gold wash used on several different made in Solingen brands. I'm guessing you have a quality blade there. It's just not what you were expecting. Like others have said, it all comes down to the shave. The prettiest razor doesn't perform the best.

murchmb said:

I've seen that same "First Class" gold wash used on several different made in Solingen brands. I'm guessing you have a quality blade there. It's just not what you were expecting. Like others have said, it all comes down to the shave. The prettiest razor doesn't perform the best.

Click to expand...

I agree with the above. Unless the blade has quality issues like crack in the blade, bad edge, uneven spine.

It will have to be honed before you shave with it else you will really get the wrong idea about str8 razor shaving in general.

Hello every body and thank you for your comments.

As I stated previously, I am new on straight razor saving, in fact this one is my first straight razor. Yes, I do know Solingen is just a city in Germany very famous for many things as for being the city where were born people so different as Adolf Eichmann and Hermann Friedrich Graebe, but basically they are world wide famous because of their cutlery. Perhaps things don't work the same way in the straight razor market as they do in the clock and watch market, and that is my mistake, but in the watchmakers market saying -Swiss made- is almost a warranty of quality and I thought it was the same with a knife or straight razor cuter made in Solingen.

I am adding some pictures where you can see the low quality in the manufacturing of THIS razor, perhaps and only perhaps, they also manufacture straight razors for countries where consumer legislation and standards of quality aren't so strict as in the USA and the EU, and some times those items end up in the "wrong place" by the so called -gray market-.

Today it has been my first save with the straight razor, and in order to do a proper test, I have shave one side of the face with the Match-3 and the other side with the straight razor. The result is very interesting, this evening on the Match-3 side I could notice the hair come through while on the other side is almost like if I have just shaved with the Match-3. However this morning the side I had shaved with the straight cut razor was sore and hot like if I had some kind of pepper lotion on it.

I imagine most of the problem comes from my shaving inexperience and perhaps the poor honing of the blade. By the way, it came -shave ready-.

Any way, here are the pics and judge by yourself. In theory it is "brand new" and "top quality" for "professionals". I know that is very unlikely, given the price I pay for it, just $79,18 plus shipping and that includes a leather strop and some Puma paste for the strop.

I imagine I will have my own opinion on the quality of the blade steel after some time and once I gain some experience.

Once again, thank you very much for your kind comments , I really appreciate them.

kind regards,
Ro

mparker762 said:

Sorry to hear about this. You always have to be wary of new razors on ebay, because so many of them are made in Pakistan and misleadingly marked in order to confuse the buyer. You're not the first member to spring for a bad razor before finding this forum. Modern genuine Solingen razors have the brand on the shank. There were some no-name Solingens back in the straight razor heyday because several of the Solingen firms made small runs for hardware stores and barber shops etc, but that really isn't the case anymore. As far as I know, the only Solingen firm left is Dovo, who also makes razors for other brands (C-Mon, Fromm, and possibly Zwilling Friodurs). There's also a guy named Heribert Wacker that's making razors in his shop under a variety of names (Wacker, Jungmeister, and recently Dorko).

Is it just the razor that is bad, or the strop too? I've got a Streich-Reimen paddle strop that seems fine, so hopefully yours is a real one and not a fake.

Click to expand...

mparker,
thank you for your great help and invaluable comments by PM. The Str8 could be really be made in Solingen, but being written the plastic pouch in Arab, makes you think the final destination wasn't the EU neither the USA.
The strop is fine, just a little cut on one side, what makes me think perhaps is a "defective" one, but happy with it.
thanks a lot.

There are certainly some quality control issues with the razor based on your pictures. Now the important thing is how it shaves.

You said that it comes "shave ready" regardless of what companies say it will NOT be shave ready. You razor was not truly shave ready.

You will need a honemeister on this forum or StraightRazorplace.com to help you with honing the razor. I assume you will need some on in Europe. As far a shaving technique is concerned there are many parameters here

Are you using a brush, cream, soap
Do you have the proper prep
Str8 shaving has a steep learning curve. You are just getting started there is much to learn and you will have to be patient.

Also do get the DVD by Lynn for more info on str8 razor shaving

Search for Mantic of Youtube and view his videos for more info.

Thebigspendur said:

Actually, the razor you have appears to be a quality razor. Its hard to say whether its new or vintage or who actually manyfactured it. If you are judging quality by the plastic scales or sloppyness of the print on the blade, don't because they all have that characteristic unless you get custom scales anyway. The important thing is does it shave well? It will probably require some honing to get it shave ready. If you are not up to the task send it out to someone who is. Don't ruin a good razor by practicing your honing with it.

Also, welcome to the site, I'm a watch collector and sometime watch tinkerer also.

Click to expand...

Thebigspendur,

Yes you could be right, probably it is just a "second" because of the finishing defects and is sold as unbranded, or as I said before, thinking in another market.

Nice to share another passion with you !
I also started as a collector, later on I had some problems with the vintage ones as not watchmaker will want to fix it, later on I started just cleaning and oiling them, and now I have two lathes (American and Swiss one) and do full restoration.

You live in a wonderful country for many things but specially so for the world of clock and watches!.

Amyn said:

There are certainly some quality control issues with the razor based on your pictures. Now the important thing is how it shaves.

You said that it comes "shave ready" regardless of what companies say it will NOT be shave ready. You razor was not truly shave ready.

You will need a honemeister on this forum or StraightRazorplace.com to help you with honing the razor. I assume you will need some on in Europe. As far a shaving technique is concerned there are many parameters here

Are you using a brush, cream, soap
Do you have the proper prep
Str8 shaving has a steep learning curve. You are just getting started there is much to learn and you will have to be patient.

Also do get the DVD by Lynn for more info on str8 razor shaving

Search for Mantic of Youtube and view his videos for more info.

Click to expand...

Amyn,

Thank you for your kind advice, and your opinion on the finishing issues of this Str8.

I have found a honemeister over here in the EU (Germany), I am waiting for some other str8 I got in eBay, once they arrive I will send them all out for honing.

Well, the str8 saving so far is being a bit of investment, and I keep buying new items.

So far I used to use a bristle brush, however today I couldn't resist and I have bought a pure high quality badger one, but haven't tried yet!. Tomorrow I will post some pictures in the Brush forum where Izzy has a post on the Vie Long brand. Regarding the soap/cream, I use Proraso soap. Regarding the prep mmmmm no I don't have it but promise I will have patience and perseverance .

I will have a look to Youtube and get the DVD by Lynn.

I have come to the Str8 world to stay !

kind regards,
Ro

murchmb said:

I've seen that same "First Class" gold wash used on several different made in Solingen brands. I'm guessing you have a quality blade there. It's just not what you were expecting. Like others have said, it all comes down to the shave. The prettiest razor doesn't perform the best.

Click to expand...

murchmb,

Thank you for your comments.

As you can see in the pics I have just posted the "First Class" is not a gold wash, but a plain black one. In the pics in eBay it looked golden to me, but now, and looking closely to the picture in eBay I realize the seller took the picture with a yellow light !

But apart from the cosmetic issues in the finishing probably is a good blade at a nice price, or at least, I hope so!.

regards,
Ro

Here is a link to all the mantic videos
http://www.youtube.com/user/mantic59

Welcome to wetshaving and enjoy the ride

I think the problem here is that you are looking at the razor as you would a watch movement and you are looking for perfection. A razor is not a watch. The blade is basically handcrafted and even if you bought a really expensive vintage razor like a Puma you would see all the same things that are not perfect. As far as the spots on the blade I would guess the razor isn't new and those developed with age. I would still bet its a quality razor. Like others have said new razors need to be honed they are rarely shave ready unless the seller told you he had it honed before he sent it to you.

I have an old English pocketwatch from the mid 1700s and when you examine it you can tell it was handmade. The case lookes like the silver was hammered out and you can tell the movement pillars were hand inscribed and the upper plate and balance **** were all hand done and it shows. If razors were churned out like basic Seiko Movements are they would then be perfect eh?

Actually looks like a cheaper beginner set, and even if a second, might be ok for the price. The stamping vs. etching makes me think probably Dovo. See if one of the guys can hone the razor for you and give it a try. If one of the honemeisters has trouble with it, it could be something else, but can't lose for trying.

Lynn

Thebigspendur said:

I think the problem here is that you are looking at the razor as you would a watch movement and you are looking for perfection. A razor is not a watch. The blade is basically handcrafted and even if you bought a really expensive vintage razor like a Puma you would see all the same things that are not perfect. As far as the spots on the blade I would guess the razor isn't new and those developed with age. I would still bet its a quality razor. Like others have said new razors need to be honed they are rarely shave ready unless the seller told you he had it honed before he sent it to you.

I have an old English pocketwatch from the mid 1700s and when you examine it you can tell it was handmade. The case lookes like the silver was hammered out and you can tell the movement pillars were hand inscribed and the upper plate and balance **** were all hand done and it shows. If razors were churned out like basic Seiko Movements are they would then be perfect eh?

Click to expand...

Thebigspendur,

Yes, you could be right I always have love perfection and have pay a lot of attention to details, that is why I have felt so comfortable in the world of watches.

However, in my modest opinion, nowadays it shouldn't be very difficult to properly forge a straight razor blade. I don't think this str8 is older than perhaps 20 years, and in theory -made in Germany-. If you look at some of the pics, you could even see some holes due to some air left behind during the forging.

So, you are one of those lucky guys with a pocket watch form 1700 !

I know what you mean, but I have several American tools for watchmaking -made in USA- with over one hundred years old and its quality and finishing is simply amazing.

regards,
Ro

Lynn said:

Actually looks like a cheaper beginner set, and even if a second, might be ok for the price. The stamping vs. etching makes me think probably Dovo. See if one of the guys can hone the razor for you and give it a try. If one of the honemeisters has trouble with it, it could be something else, but can't lose for trying.

Lynn

Click to expand...

Hi Lynn, what an honor !

Perhaps you are the Lynn whose DVD was recommended to me by Amyn !.

Yes Lynn, I agree, to me it simply looks a second, however as most people agree probably the blade is a good one.

I have been sharpening and honing my watchmakers lathe gravers for some time, and I had a go by myself at honing the str8.

So far I notice the steel is much much softer than the one I am used to, but now I can cut the hair of my arm by "flying" the razor close over my skin without touching it. I think that is very sharp

Those are almost the good news, the bad news is I shaved myself again this morning after the honing and I had over 25 little cuts, however yesterday I had none.

The conclusion is I am better at honing than at shaving!.

I hope to learn with your DVD (¿?) once I go through the mantic videos at Youtube.

regards,
Ro

Best of Luck Ro!!!

Regards,

Lynn