The Ketogenic Get Healthy Thread

[BigSpivito]

This morning I mixed 1 cup of heavy cream, 3 tablespoons of butter, and a shot of EVOO to 20oz of coffee.
This was at 0630.
I have not gotten hungry yet and my BS is currently 81 and never rose above 110.
Something that works for/with my diabetes and I am sure with a LCHF/KETO lifestyle

Very nice! I have not heard of anyone using the EVOO because of the taste, but good on you man. I started out doing the same sort of coffee (5 Tbsp heavy whipping cream, 1/2 tsp Pyure sweetener, fill the rest of the cup with coffee) and I can attest to the hunger factor not being there until late in the day. I have since progressed to removing the cream for a time, just to see how it affects me. I will be adding back in about 2-3 tablespoons soon, as I get hungry around lunch without, and fall to the snacking temptation.

All that to say well done, and way to go in regards to taking control of your health and diabetes with the diet!

 

[BigSpivito]

I've been concentrating on other things. Still with you all doing keto. Didn't weight myself for a month. Just did. Down another 9 lbs. Yes I know it is no miracle to loose 9 lbs. but really it was pretty painless. Huge progress to a goal that is getting closer. Might hit a doctor approved weight mid summer. Nutz. In a good way.

It is kind of cool to see how eating on this "diet" of awesome foods can help get into a healthy range. I would have called anyone crazy if they had told me years ago that a diet of steak, bacon, and a few sparse veggies would get me to my best health (both weight and otherwise) in many years!

 

[Doc4]

This morning I mixed 1 cup of heavy cream, 3 tablespoons of butter, and a shot of EVOO to 20oz of coffee.

Wow, that's a lot of cream! My first reading of your comment focused on the EVOO (instead of the MCT oil that I use and everybody else uses ... and I encourage you to try out, but ...) and now I'm thinking that's more of a coffee-flavoured cream-shake than a buttery cup of coffee.

 

[martym]

I think it’s a huge fat bomb

 

[Alacrity59]

I'm in a strange spot in my life. After a day of gardening and some other stress I was feeling a bit peckish. Just finished off the Cesar Salad with bacon bits I decided to have.

Five months in. My tastes have changed.

 

[ackvil]

I am not on a keto diet -yet. I want to lose ten pounds - which is not that much, I guess. Years ago, I dropped 25 pounds on the Atkins diet and was thinking of trying it again.

Recently, I read this about the Atkins diet and it concerned me. For those of you who know, what is the difference in the two diets?

 

[JimP]

Atkins is high protein. Keto is minimal protein. Protein is basically broken down and processed as sugar, an anathema to a ketogenic diet.

Moderate/minimal protein, low-to-no carb, no sugar, and relatively high fat (good fats) - is Keto.

Again, play around with it - do what works for you. I too read the Atkins diet and was a bit concerned but don't e3at anywhere near that amount of protein.

 

[Haggises]

Keto is lower carb than Atkins. 20g or so and stay there. Atkins you start low then gradually work your way back up a bit, to maybe 50g per day.

Carbs are a limit. 20g net. You may be in ketosis at a higher level but if you're breathing and you're 20g you're likely in ketosis.
Keto protein should be a goal to not lose muscle weight. Usually ends up 20-25% of calories, 50% by weight of intake. You should not eat much more than your goal to avoid gluconeogenesis, but you should definitely not be under your goal.

Fat should be a limit, to eat to satiety and not go over your total carbs.

This calculator is pretty good.
Keto Calculator


That study...or at least the newspaper report on that study, did not state if people were on High fat low carb diets or High Carb low fat diets. Keto evangelists argue that it's the carbs that kill you, not the fats or the proteins. Having seen my blood numbers and the effect it's had on me, I tend to agree.

 

[dangerousdon]

I hate articles like these. They don't cite actual sources and but allude to one or some. If there was a study, just reference the study. Give me the data and give me the science.

Analysis of more than 2,440 men

This tells me that it was not a double blind randomized control study (which is the gold standard in scientific research). What it does tell me is that it was an epidemiological study...meaning they observed the study subjects. Likely, they told the subjects what they should eat, had them check in from time to time to diary or survey their meals. Highly unreliable. Or it could have been a meta-analysis where researchers looked at several studies and come up with their own conclusions.

Either way, they didn't include ages, health characteristics, if they were physically active, if they consumed more carbohydrates in their diet than fat or protein, do they smoke, do they drink, exactly how high the protein levels were...I could go on...but you get the picture. They just say protein is bad and expect us to take it for granted. Also, I would like to know who paid for the study. That would say a lot. Nutrition studies are notorious for being paid for by Unilever, Monsanto, Big Sugar, Big Wheat, Big Agriculture that has constantly funded research for expected results.

I have never known Atkins to be a High Protein Diet. It might be higher protein than other diets...but I don't think it specifies exactly how much protein. In Phase I, Atkins tells you to eat protein, healthy fats, certain veggies, nuts and cheese. I guess that could be high protein, but if I had to guess it is something like a 40% protein, 50% fat, and 10% carb diet. Beyond Phase I, you introduce various fruit, beans, and whole milk dairy. Then other veggies and whole grains in various amounts.

You can go to PubMed and type in various info like "High Protein" and see what the latest studies are and how they were conducted as well as who paid for the research.

I am not going to say this is gospel, but I have been listening to various podcasts lately that feature people on a carnivore diet...meat only. Some of these people have been on it for years. From what I gather...unless you are eating skinless, boneless chicken breast every single day for three meals a day and snacks...it is going to be very hard to eat a really high protein diet. But again...I am not a doctor or a scientist. I would encourage your to do some digging before you come to any conclusions. Anyway...I hope this helps!

 

[FarmerTan]

I hate articles like these. They don't cite actual sources and but allude to one or some. If there was a study, just reference the study. Give me the data and give me the science.


This tells me that it was not a double blind randomized control study (which is the gold standard in scientific research). What it does tell me is that it was an epidemiological study...meaning they observed the study subjects. Likely, they told the subjects what they should eat, had them check in from time to time to diary or survey their meals. Highly unreliable. Or it could have been a meta-analysis where researchers looked at several studies and come up with their own conclusions.

Either way, they didn't include ages, health characteristics, if they were physically active, if they consumed more carbohydrates in their diet than fat or protein, do they smoke, do they drink, exactly how high the protein levels were...I could go on...but you get the picture. They just say protein is bad and expect us to take it for granted. Also, I would like to know who paid for the study. That would say a lot. Nutrition studies are notorious for being paid for by Unilever, Monsanto, Big Sugar, Big Wheat, Big Agriculture that has constantly funded research for expected results.

I have never known Atkins to be a High Protein Diet. It might be higher protein than other diets...but I don't think it specifies exactly how much protein. In Phase I, Atkins tells you to eat protein, healthy fats, certain veggies, nuts and cheese. I guess that could be high protein, but if I had to guess it is something like a 40% protein, 50% fat, and 10% carb diet. Beyond Phase I, you introduce various fruit, beans, and whole milk dairy. Then other veggies and whole grains in various amounts.

You can go to PubMed and type in various info like "High Protein" and see what the latest studies are and how they were conducted as well as who paid for the research.

I am not going to say this is gospel, but I have been listening to various podcasts lately that feature people on a carnivore diet...meat only. Some of these people have been on it for years. From what I gather...unless you are eating skinless, boneless chicken breast every single day for three meals a day and snacks...it is going to be very hard to eat a really high protein diet. But again...I am not a doctor or a scientist. I would encourage your to do some digging before you come to any conclusions. Anyway...I hope this helps!

Excellent points . Keep up the good work, Don

 

[dangerousdon]

One more thing that kills me on these articles...the researchers have no idea about the diet they are comparing their research to. If you are going to say Atkins, Keto, Paleo, etc is bad...make sure when you define it...if you define it...it's actually what it is.

 

[dangerousdon]

Excellent points . Keep up the good work, Don

Thanks!

 

[ackvil]

I hate articles like these. They don't cite actual sources and but allude to one or some. If there was a study, just reference the study. Give me the data and give me the science.


This tells me that it was not a double blind randomized control study (which is the gold standard in scientific research). What it does tell me is that it was an epidemiological study...meaning they observed the study subjects. Likely, they told the subjects what they should eat, had them check in from time to time to diary or survey their meals. Highly unreliable. Or it could have been a meta-analysis where researchers looked at several studies and come up with their own conclusions.

Either way, they didn't include ages, health characteristics, if they were physically active, if they consumed more carbohydrates in their diet than fat or protein, do they smoke, do they drink, exactly how high the protein levels were...I could go on...but you get the picture. They just say protein is bad and expect us to take it for granted. Also, I would like to know who paid for the study. That would say a lot. Nutrition studies are notorious for being paid for by Unilever, Monsanto, Big Sugar, Big Wheat, Big Agriculture that has constantly funded research for expected results.

I have never known Atkins to be a High Protein Diet. It might be higher protein than other diets...but I don't think it specifies exactly how much protein. In Phase I, Atkins tells you to eat protein, healthy fats, certain veggies, nuts and cheese. I guess that could be high protein, but if I had to guess it is something like a 40% protein, 50% fat, and 10% carb diet. Beyond Phase I, you introduce various fruit, beans, and whole milk dairy. Then other veggies and whole grains in various amounts.

You can go to PubMed and type in various info like "High Protein" and see what the latest studies are and how they were conducted as well as who paid for the research.

I am not going to say this is gospel, but I have been listening to various podcasts lately that feature people on a carnivore diet...meat only. Some of these people have been on it for years. From what I gather...unless you are eating skinless, boneless chicken breast every single day for three meals a day and snacks...it is going to be very hard to eat a really high protein diet. But again...I am not a doctor or a scientist. I would encourage your to do some digging before you come to any conclusions. Anyway...I hope this helps!

Keep in mind the article is reporting the conclusions of the study and is not the study itself. Newspapers report the results and do not delve into the study itself and never give the "boring statistics." It is similar to polls that newspapers love to report. They don't state the audience polled or how it was conducted. You have to go to the study itself to find out that info. So, don't blame the study unless you actually analyze the methodology and analysis of the study. The first actual study included more than the Atkins diet and can be found here. The latest study was published in "Circulation," which is published by the American Heart Association.

The original Atkins diet was strictly protein. When I went on it my diet for the first few weeks it contained almost no carbs. Breakfast was bacon and eggs with black coffee. Lunch was a chicken breast or hamburger (without bread) and cottage cheese. Dinner was chicken, steak, liver, or fish with cottage cheese. You could eat meat, fish, fat, and dairy without limitation but for the first weeks practically no carbs. Later, you gradually added carbs in the form of certain vegetables. I remember using Keto strips to check my status every day.



I dropped 15 pounds the first month and then for the first time began to have some carbs in the form of leafy vegetables, squash, and a few other vegetables in limited quantities. It was only when you achieved your weight goal that you could begin to add more carbs. If you started to gain weight then you cut back or the carbs again. I did not follow the Atkins maintenance diet after two years but kept my weight down until I reached 65.

After Dr. Atkins died (contrary to what was reported in the news he did not die of a heart condition but from complications as a result of a fall and his hitting his head), his institute modified the diet to include up to 20 grams of carbs a day. However, his original diet was stricter.

Hence, my question about the Keto diet and how it differs from the Atkins diet.

 

[John Rose]

TLDR

I have higher than normal insulin levels,
I'm insulin resistant,

Eh... what? Is that injected insulin, or your own?
Do you monitor your blood glucose levels? If so, what are they like?

 

[dangerousdon]

Hence, my question about the Keto diet and how it differs from the Atkins diet.

I know I should have looked at the original study but wasn't really in a time or place that I could locate and read. I guess I was bashing the article...but those things are only there to create headlines. You all know I am crazy so I won't go more into it but to say that if there is going to be a media report on a study, they really need to at the very least link to the study...if they did I failed to catch it and apologize. But they really should put more info into it to give you something more.

I think someone stated above...but in Phase I...Atkins is Keto. Once you start incorporating more fruits and veggies and consume more than 50 grams of carbs a day...most anyone will get kicked out of ketosis. I can't comment on the longevity of the diet since I have only been on this since January, but I have already seen some great health benefits.

Sorry for the rant earlier...I will read the article and then give you my amateur opinion. Thanks for sharing Jim!

 

[dangerousdon]

TLDR

Eh... what? Is that injected insulin, or your own?
Do you monitor your blood glucose levels? If so, what are they like?

No, I don't inject insulin...I was talking about the fasting insulin that my own body produces. At one time I had measured insulin levels of over 50. With the help of a little medication and a low carb diet, my insulin levels are in excellent ranges. I think the lat time I went it was in the 6.0 range. Whereas anything above 25 (I think) is out of normal range. Fasting Insulin is just one of the markers for Type II Diabetes and is not checked often enough or in a lot of cases at all. If your fasting insulin is high...there might be an issue...but other things need to be checked to determine if it is Type II Diabetes, Insulin Resistance, Metabolic Syndrome, etc. I do not measure my glucose at home. I'm kind of a baby and I really don't want to stick my finger a million times a day. But if Continuous Glucose Monitors became available without a prescription and was more affordable...I would totally do that. Real time glucose spikes would be awesome information to have. I hope this answers your question.

 

[ackvil]

I know I should have looked at the original study but wasn't really in a time or place that I could locate and read. I guess I was bashing the article...but those things are only there to create headlines. You all know I am crazy so I won't go more into it but to say that if there is going to be a media report on a study, they really need to at the very least link to the study...if they did I failed to catch it and apologize. But they really should put more info into it to give you something more.

I think someone stated above...but in Phase I...Atkins is Keto. Once you start incorporating more fruits and veggies and consume more than 50 grams of carbs a day...most anyone will get kicked out of ketosis. I can't comment on the longevity of the diet since I have only been on this since January, but I have already seen some great health benefits.

Sorry for the rant earlier...I will read the article and then give you my amateur opinion. Thanks for sharing Jim!

The original Atkins diet I was on consisted of three phases. Phase I was as carb free as you could get. In that stage, you monitored your Keto level every day. In addition to the diet, you had to drink (I believe the figure was correct) something like 80 ounces of water a day. Dr. Atkins was concerned about Kidney damage. Phase II was after a few weeks and again you monitored your Keto level daily. You increased some carbs but as I recall it was nowhere as high as 50 grams a day. Phase III was when you reached your goal and was for maintenance.

The diet worked fine for me. I lost the weight. However, when I tried it again five years ago after three weeks I lost only five pounds.

At my age, my metabolism has slowed to a crawl and in the last few years it has become more difficult to take the weight off.

 

[deoxy4]

I saw a study recently comparing low fat diets versus low carbohydrate diets. I had to read two thirds thru the study to find the low carbohydrate diet participants averaged over 130 grams of carbohydrates. Really! Garbage!

Good presentation about the "science of studies" or the lack there of.

 

[Haggises]

So far it's working for me. Down 25 pounds in just over 3 months. 10% of body weight.
I'm kind of amazed. Other than not being able to eat bread, pasta, rice, candy, I don't really feel like I'm restricting myself too much.

 

[dangerousdon]

So far it's working for me. Down 25 pounds in just over 3 months. 10% of body weight.
I'm kind of amazed. Other than not being able to eat bread, pasta, rice, candy, I don't really feel like I'm restricting myself too much.

Excellent! That is some great progress.

I'm a couple pounds short of 60 pounds of total weight loss. But there are other things at work here. Just feeling really great! I get blood work done next week also so I will have more to report!