The 10 Commandments for Newbies

[mattface]

I've been DE shaving for a year and straight shaving for only a couple weeks and I've never had a cut that requried any additional attention... rinse with cold water and alcohol AS or Witchhazel. Sure everyone's different but is it realistic to suggest a completely separate plan for each new person to the site?

The reality is 90% of the standard recommendations apply to 95% of the wet shavers. Do I think I'm a "good shaver"... no. I think I'm a careful shaver who understands that if you wield some of these blades like a cartridge you're going to hurt yourself. I "get" blade angle, I "get" pressure. Some guys have very good shaves right off, but just because you understood "no pressure" and blade angle before some of the other guys doesn't mean that they still don't apply.

If you've got a good grasp of technique after the first few shaves, great (I'm not saying it's impossible, if you read what I wrote). I said if you shave 4-5 times and then things go to hell it wasn't because you have everything figured out and your blade just wasn't right. All of this is very very simple, all of these things are all over the board one place or another...


If you really think these 10 tips REALLY don't apply go to the first 20 threads on the newbie forum and tell them why the problems they're having are because their technique is perfect, their blade needs to be changed, their lather is great, and that they should have keep going after the first pass resulted in about 15 cuts.

My point is not that these things you point out are not of value to a lot of people it's that they are not universal, and do not apply to everyone. "10 things every new shaver should consider" fine, but 10 commandments? If so, I'm going to hell, and I doubt I will be alone. It's the folks who have problems that post asking for help with their problems, but for every newbie who suffers from nicks and cuts on their first shaves, how many simply get a great shave, and move on? I don't think you'll actually be able to answer that by looking at the most popular threads in the newbie forum. in fact I posted about my first shaves in the newbie forum, but since I wasn't asking a question, there was little for anyone to comment about besides "congrats dude" OTOH if I asked why I was getting razor burn on my neck, I would have gotten a dozen opinions, most of them saying the same things you just said. People love to offer opinions, even when 5 other people already offered the same one. THAT's what I observe more than anything else when perusing the top 20 posts on the newbie forum.

 

[dill&ban]

Great Post! ...

 

[jwcarlson]

My point is not that these things you point out are not of value to a lot of people it's that they are not universal, and do not apply to everyone. "10 things every new shaver should consider" fine, but 10 commandments? If so, I'm going to hell, and I doubt I will be alone. It's the folks who have problems that post asking for help with their problems, but for every newbie who suffers from nicks and cuts on their first shaves, how many simply get a great shave, and move on? I don't think you'll actually be able to answer that by looking at the most popular threads in the newbie forum. in fact I posted about my first shaves in the newbie forum, but since I wasn't asking a question, there was little for anyone to comment about besides "congrats dude" OTOH if I asked why I was getting razor burn on my neck, I would have gotten a dozen opinions, most of them saying the same things you just said. People love to offer opinions, even when 5 other people already offered the same one. THAT's what I observe more than anything else when perusing the top 20 posts on the newbie forum.

Haha, it's lost on you, nevermind.

 

[baconstrip]

Very good advice for new wet-shaver like myself! I'm working on #2. It easy to get excited and go over board w/ the stuff and passes but, any real craftsman knows its the technician, not the tools. On the third shave I was going against the grain riding high telling my self Bss only to be very disappointed w/ the 4th and 5th due to poor prep. I could see if I was switching razors or blades it might not of been as obvious. A proper apprenticeship is essential becoming a journeyman as humbling as that may be.

Thanks! Jake

 

[coyotewhisper]

Excellent advice. I will add do not give-up or become discouraged. You are learning how to sahve properly after years of poor shaving. It takes time to undo the bad habits.

 

[Topgumby]

Looks like this guy could use some shaving tips...

I like your list! Anything listed as a commandment around here is likely to run in to the rocks of YMMV...maybe the thread should be titled "The Ten Suggestions" or "The Ten Pretty Good Ideas, But You Might Be The Exception That Proves The Rule"

While starting with a lather bomb might make things easier, there's something to be said for going all Nietzsche and starting with Williams... it demands some effort with the brush, and after that, lathering anything else is a snap!

 

[Big Dog]

Where was this thread when I started shaving with a DE 5 weeks ago?!?!

I have completely mastered wet shaving now (at least until the next weeper, nick, razor burn, gash - shall I go on?).

Great post and reminder.

 

[jwcarlson]

While starting with a lather bomb might make things easier, there's something to be said for going all Nietzsche and starting with Williams... it demands some effort with the brush, and after that, lathering anything else is a snap!

It certainly is easier to lather the tough soaps when you've got decent at reading your lather to make sure you know when to add water... and know how much product to load up with!

 

[hamzie]

4. Rinsing lather down the drain and walking away is not a sin.


Had to do that with my first shave with the slant.
*sigh

 

[BentonClay]

What an enjoyable and fine piece of writing. Thank-you very much!

 

[DVM2012]

I actually whole-heartedly agree with #8. I actually stuck with the same setup (only changing JUST cream once every few months) for over 2 and a half years. Part of that was because I just didn't know any better, but it really helps to get technique down, and it gave me a good basepoint against which to compare any changes. Since then, I've changed blades once, and I have kept with the same blade now for two weeks. Not the best two weeks, but I knew I had to give the new blade a chance. All in all, good points to keep in mind!

EDIT: I haven't kept the same INDIVIDUAL blade, just the same type

 

[Deltaboy]

A great set of 10 for shaving.

 

[mattface]

Haha, it's lost on you, nevermind.

I think a lot of these kinds of posts tend to have the effect of scaring off newbies. I know I read lots of these kinds of posts here before my first DE shave I was afraid I was going to slice my face off. When I try to evangelize to other people their primary fear is that they are going to cut my face off. My girlfriend was also afraid before she tried shaving her legs with the DE.

It's true, you CAN cut yourself more easily with a DE than with a cartridge razor, but if one is careful, and understands the basics, that is much less likely, and the severity of the cuts is much less than most people expect. I find these types of posts largely reinforce the misconception that shaving with a safety razor is super dangerous, and only for those with elite skills.

I'm not saying proper skills and technique should not be taught, only that the tone of the teaching posts tends to give an impression to newbies that this is harder than it is, and your first commandment really reinforces that misconception.

I think it's possible to teach about the dangers without making something seem dauntingly difficult to learn. Much like driving a car, this is a skill most any 16 year old can learn. Unlike driving a car, the dangers are much less, and yet is seems to be treated like something that is much harder than driving a car. In my case anyway, I found driving a car to be a much more difficult skill to learn. Honestly I think al lot of us here like to believe that what we are doing is something very difficult. It makes us feel special for being able to do it, but seriously it's just shaving, and although it DOES take some skill, it's a skill most anyone can learn without great difficulty.

I don't fault you for wanting to share the things you've learned about the best way to do it, but you had your first disappointing DE shave just under a year ago. You've got about as much business writing the 10 commandments of DE shaving as my 16 year old daughter does of writing the Vermont Safe Driving Manual.

 

[jwcarlson]

I don't fault you for wanting to share the things you've learned about the best way to do it, but you had your first disappointing DE shave just under a year ago. You've got about as much business writing the 10 commandments of DE shaving as my 16 year old daughter does of writing the Vermont Safe Driving Manual.

Yes... but if you would have actually READ what I wrote a year ago you would have seen:

I'm disappointed alright... disappointed that I ever used the stupid cartridges!!

Did you even read anything other than the title of this thread?


The good news is I might have someone to finally add to my ignore list.

Look at the threads in this forum. There are guys cutting themselves 10+ times in a shave and not stopping. You're argument that people are "afraid of cutting themselves" is bogus. Sure I am... but that makes me shave carefully and stay cautious. If they were afraid they'd be more careful... unless of course they're being careful and their technique just sucks.
So I guess take your pick... haha.
It seems everyone else enjoyed the post for what it is. And *SHOCK* there's even a few guys that wish it would have been here when they started.
But maybe you're right and it's terrible awful advice.


Have a fantastic day, Matt! I mean it!

 

[Trendkill]

Looks like this guy could use some shaving tips...

I like your list! Anything listed as a commandment around here is likely to run in to the rocks of YMMV...maybe the thread should be titled "The Ten Suggestions" or "The Ten Pretty Good Ideas, But You Might Be The Exception That Proves The Rule"

While starting with a lather bomb might make things easier, there's something to be said for going all Nietzsche and starting with Williams... it demands some effort with the brush, and after that, lathering anything else is a snap!

+1 It's always YMMV with shaving.

 

[mattface]

Yes... but if you would have actually READ what I wrote a year ago you would have seen:


Did you even read anything other than the title of this thread?


The good news is I might have someone to finally add to my ignore list.

Look at the threads in this forum. There are guys cutting themselves 10+ times in a shave and not stopping. You're argument that people are "afraid of cutting themselves" is bogus. Sure I am... but that makes me shave carefully and stay cautious. If they were afraid they'd be more careful... unless of course they're being careful and their technique just sucks.
So I guess take your pick... haha.
It seems everyone else enjoyed the post for what it is. And *SHOCK* there's even a few guys that wish it would have been here when they started.
But maybe you're right and it's terrible awful advice.


Have a fantastic day, Matt! I mean it!

I didn't bother to read your first post, I was just curious how long you'd been doing it that qualified you to be the voice of god. I'm glad you had a good experience right our of the gate, as I've pointed out you're not alone, many of us don't find this DE thing all that hard.

I also read all of your ten commandments, and wholeheartedly agree with a couple of your points, but the most important one I agree with is that this ain't rocket science. Starting off with commandment #1 paraphrased "your technique sucks" is simply not true of everyone who starts out using a DE, and again I think it makes this thing seem more daunting than it is. It wasn't true for me, and apparently according to you, it wasn't true for you either. If you billed it as 10 things to consider if you're getting sucky shaves, that would be fine, but just because a lot of people post in the newbie forum that they're having trouble does not mean that all or even most newbies need to read your ten commandments, or that they'll be useful for all newbies. Sorry, but your post comes off as handing down wise advice from on high, and I always have trouble accepting advice put forth i that manner especially from someone who is a relative newbie himself.

YMMV is a mantra on these boards for a reason. Not everyone has the same needs, or experiences shaving, what works for one person may not work for another. The truly universal things are very few and far between. If you think I'm being a jerk for respectfully disagreeing with you, then I'm sorry. Ignore me if you like. It wasn't my intention to hurt your feelings, only to offer an alternate viewpoint. I agree shaving is not rocket science. I disagree that all newbies need to read and follow your commandments or suffer the wrath of God, in the forms of nicks, cuts and raging razor burn. If you had presented it as something many newbies might find useful I would not have anything to disagree with.

I do appreciate you're offering the benefit of your experience, and I would like to do so also. In my experience this DE thing is not as hard as some would make it out to be. There is a lot of good advice here. You yourself give some good advice. Anyone reading these forums exponentially more likely to be well informed when they first take blade to face, but there is also so much info here, that it can sometimes be overwhelming, and I think it's important to consider the source when weighing which information to take to heart. A healthy does of humility goes a long way with me. I find the people who know the most about any given subject, know it well enough to know how much they do not know. When people present their information as infallible I am more likely to interpret their certitude as sophomoric. Yes I think you and I probably have valuable advice we can both impart to people less experienced than we, but I also think it would be inappropriate for either of us to pretend to be any kind of authority.

Again I'm sorry if you found my disagreement insulting, that was not my intention. You have a great day as well, and I do thank you for being so forthcoming and sharing your experiences with me and the rest of this board.

 

[jwcarlson]

It's all symantics... I'd contend that if you have the technique down pat in one or two shaves you're really not a "newbie" in that regard anymore. I think guys that are used to shaving with the non-pivoting 1-2 blade disposables are probably most ripe to make a very seemless switch to the DE.

And I figured everyone would pick up on "The 10 Commandment" take... It's a bit absurd to argue I was trying to play shaving god or something. I think the tone of the OP should have made that apparent. I still contend that all of them apply to the vast majority of new DE shavers and I don't really see how you could argue they don't... they aren't profound observations. And many of them apply to everyone in my opinion. They aren't any sort of revelation, don't get me wrong... They are just simple suggestions that you don't necessarily see enough, IMO. Perhaps more than anything guys not knowing when to stop. Look at TheCaveman's post about having a DE shave bad enough he was thinking about quiting. He'd shaved 4-5 times and done well previously but his next shave he posted a video afterward and it looked like someone squirted him with a ketchup shotgun. These types of threads are common and come up very frequently, perhaps not in the past couple months that you've been a member but even in my short stint here I've seen a ton of them. I think that maybe, as simple of a suggestion as it is, if someone would have simply suggested that if you cut yourself a couple times during the shave maybe you should regroup instead of forging onward.

You're making the assumption that I think EVERYONE who shaves is cutting themselves all the time. I don't and never said that. But if you browse though the threads you'll see all kinds of instances where just following one of these would have saved the OP a lot of irritation, cuts, pain, blood, time, etc.

Saying YMMV in regards to "If you cut yourself 10 times you should stop" is nuts. And we've all made lather we've been less than proud of and maybe paid in more irritation than we'd have otherwise had.




And don't worry about offending me... I've got extremely thick skin.

 

[mattface]

It's all symantics... I'd contend that if you have the technique down pat in one or two shaves you're really not a "newbie" in that regard anymore. I think guys that are used to shaving with the non-pivoting 1-2 blade disposables are probably most ripe to make a very seemless switch to the DE.

...snip...

You're making the assumption that I think EVERYONE who shaves is cutting themselves all the time. I don't and never said that. But if you browse though the threads you'll see all kinds of instances where just following one of these would have saved the OP a lot of irritation, cuts, pain, blood, time, etc.

Saying YMMV in regards to "If you cut yourself 10 times you should stop" is nuts. And we've all made lather we've been less than proud of and maybe paid in more irritation than we'd have otherwise had.

See, I guess that's what I didn't get from your initial post. I didn't see where you acknowledged that not all newbies are cutting themselves, or declared that if you're not cutting yourself you're not a newbie. I do think you have some valuable advice there. I know a lot of people DO have trouble at first, and I do agree that if you're cutting yourself you'd better step away from the razor, and examine what you're doing wrong instead of soldiering on and turning your face to hamburger. I did offer up my advice to poor caveman along with the other folks. I'm just not wanting the advice that goes out those guys to scare off potential new DE shavers and I think a LOT of the advice on these boards, and not just yours can have that effect.

If I were to write a newbie primer it would probably start with :

1 Careful with that thing it's sharp. This should be obvious, but if you're cutting yourself you're doing it wrong.

Sorry if I got a bit up in arms. It really isn't personal. I'm just increasingly feeling like too many people on these boards, are making this sound more difficult than it needs to be, and I guess it's beginning to turn into a pet peeve. I know there are those who really need to hear the message you're giving, but I also want them to get the message that although yes, shaving with a sharp blade does carry with it the potential to cut oneself, it doesn't have to be difficult to learn and I suspect the wisdom we'd both like to impart is more about a healthy respect for the blade, and not a fear of it.

 

[jwcarlson]

No appology required!

I certainly meant the OP to be a fairly lighthearted take on things. The only reason this popped into my mind was because of about 3-4 posts in a couple days (the most gruesome of which was TheCaveman's) of guys really doing a number on themselves. I really don't think I'd ever seen many guys tell folks to just put the razor down if it wasn't going well. Sure it's implied by common sense but when you're not operating in familiar territory you can get carried away.

I'm just increasingly feeling like too many people on these boards, are making this sound more difficult than it needs to be, and I guess it's beginning to turn into a pet peeve.

I completely agree. But I don't see how the things I suggest are over complicating anything? Opinion I guess...
I wanted to get away from the typical complications that guys introduce on here... having 15 different kinds of blades, 10 razors, 20 soaps and creams, 4 brushes, 6 aftershaves, and a partridge in a pear tree. And even prep for that matter... there was a discussion just a few days ago relating to how overwhelming the process of Kyle's prep can be. I thought these things I highlighted were some of the basic the nuts and bolts of the actual act of DE shaving. It basically boils down to the vast majority of readily available wet shaving supplies work, you just have to learn how to use them. And using the same set until you have things well hammered out helps to further simplify.

The post itself may be complex but I'd hope you can agree the suggestions contained are not... in fact they're so simple it might be offending to some I suppose?

 

[Marcus_C]

Great post, really well presented too! Sticky vote anyone?