Hard soaps can be difficult to lather compared to creams. I would try the proraso shaving cream first.
Yeah, i started out with a hard soap puck, not knowing about croaps and creams. And i found when i did two practice lathers today, TOBS and then Proraso croap, the cream was way quickerHard soaps can be difficult to lather compared to creams. I would try the proraso shaving cream first.
I fell victim to the same thing awhile back and cut back on the water and do a little more agitating and it's working for me.I just tried doing another practice lather, but with Proraso.
It seems i've simply just been using too much water. Less water, more agitation - Lots of lather and slickness
And i do agree that letting the lather be for a minute or two, helps a lot. Hydrating the skin, softening the hairs
I may, or may not be at the starting line again...
Bowl lathering. I started to get varying results with TOBS. Sometimes it was good, sometimes it was a wet mess and no slickness. That's by slowly adding water as needed, as i heard creams need less water.
I just tried a version of the so called ''Marco Method''. Same amount of cream i use normally. But now i have the brush very wet. LIGHTLY shake of any water that will be dripping out, so my brush is completely filled with water. Go to my bowl, that has a small dab of the cream. The later is very..... thin and airy. But the slickness is fantastic. A bit more product/ a bit less water might make it less thin, and just as slick.
So here i have once again gone 360 with my methods, and i am completely lost as to why this is happening I've gone from:
-Slowly adding water, and agitate and work up the lather slowly.
To
-Using less water and agitating more
To now
-Drown the brush with water, and work it until it becomes a lather
If i used half as much water, as i do with the Marco Method. But using the method of slowly adding water, it slowly stops being slick, becomes a slickless lather that dries up on my face. - Shaking all water out the brush, and wetting just tips a tiny bit. Lightly start working the lather (no splaying) adding water slowly. Slowly start putting a tiny amount of pressure into mixing the lather, as time goes on. Lather looks fine, but no slickness, and dries of very fast
The variability is quite something..... Which it probably just me. But it's so confusing to me, as i'm very ''habit focused'' (sorry, i don't know the english word for it) and i tend to do things the same way, exactly to a tee. Still getting varying results
Maybe i'm thinking that the brush holds a lot more water than it does. And adding too much water when slowly adding water? I will try experimenting some more. I'd love to get some opinions, though. If you've been in my steps, or might understand what's going on here
That's why im kind of confused why adding so much water to the cream, especially from the get go, made it so slick. Based on my experience so far, if i were to add that much water, by slowly adding it in while mixing the lather, it would be too much water and the slickness would disappear.Study John's (@JCinPA's) post here. He provides detailed methods for several different use cases.
Foolproof Lather Method (TM) - any soap - any brush
I am a Lather Master! Not being braggadocious, just stating a fact. And you can be too! I'm here to teach you. No need for a Brotherhood of Lather Masters, every member of B&B should be a Lather Master. Unfortunately, with so many people who enjoy this activity so much, and the more OCD of us...www.badgerandblade.com
Marco's method was originally for soft Italian soaps (aka croaps). The basic idea is using a very wet brush to load the soap with the jar held more or less upside-down over the brush. After the brush is loaded with soap, no additional water is used as the lather is made. You already have all the water you will need.
If you want to use Marco's method for creams, you have to be very careful, since creams already have a lot of water and you can easily pick up too much cream loading this way.
That's why im kind of confused why adding so much water to the cream, especially from the get go, made it so slick. Based on my experience so far, if i were to add that much water, by slowly adding it in while mixing the lather, it would be too much water and the slickness would disappear.
But as i say, i will experiment some more
Id like to find his actual post but its not easy with the search engine here.
I've seen somewhere that TOBS may be best face lathered. Im going to test that next. The reason i stopped face lathering, was that the brush i had at the time, A silvertip badger, was really making my face itch and irritated. Whether it was user error, or the animal hair i am not sure. But less time on the face, meant less uncomfortability at that time.There is a lot of good advice on here. I am only adding this as your story is a lot like a lathering crisis that I went through several months ago.
You appear to be bowl lathering exclusively. I started bowl lathering and have a lather bowl I love but have not used for sometime. After trying many methods to bowl lather and getting confused with too much or too little water, too much whipping, not enough whipping, whipping fast or whipping slow etc., I switched to face lathering and found I could get a better consistency and lather because I could feel how it was developing on my face. It also allowed me to see and feel, on my face, what a good lather looked like for me.
Too much water it all starts running off your face, too little and it feels/looks dry. Also, use more soap.
I am not advocating for one method or the other, what works for you is what you need to do. But if you haven't tried face lathering I would recommend experimenting with it a least once or twice.
For what it is worth my current method with any soap (I have tried Tabac, Cella Red, Proraso green, Haslinger, Arko!, Col Conc) is to swirl my damp (squeezed) brush clockwise and then anti-clockwise, I count to 20 one way and back from 20 the other (not specificly in seconds, just count). I pick up any lather that has formed on the soap and rub it on my face and then coat my face with soap off the brush. I then dip the tips of the brush in water and lather one side of the face and repeat on the other side, generally twice (two dips of tips) per side. Some soaps need three dips of water per side some not. Keep dipping and lathering until the lather feels right. My brush will usually hold enough lather for two passes at least. For me this produces a slick lather, not voluminous, but gives good coverage and is slick.
Also, out of interest, what type of brush do you use? I started initially with a cheap synthetic, I was PIF'd a badger brush and my lathers were instantly better and easier to obtain. I was able to get a similar lather eventually with the synthetic but it took longer and was way more work.
Good luck.
Edit: I now use the same method with synthetic, badger, boar and mixed boar/badger brushes, I am not suggesting one brush type is better than another, I think my first brush was just bad and I didn't know any different.
I've seen somewhere that TOBS may be best face lathered. Im going to test that next. The reason i stopped face lathering, was that the brush i had at the time, A silvertip badger, was really making my face itch and irritated. Whether it was user error, or the animal hair i am not sure. But less time on the face, meant less uncomfortability at that time.
I now have a Synthetic Tuxedo Yaqi brush. Any splaying on the face so far, has been nothing but a pleasure, as it is incredibly soft.
The cream. Tried face lathering with it, took a bit out of the jar, and into the brush. Straight onto the face. Worked fine like that.Are we talking about TOBS hard milled soap or cream in a plastic jar? Just want to be clear on that.
The cream from TOBS should be very easy to lather. Hard soap from them takes a bit more work but should lather up fine with good technique.
Not being able to face lather when starting out is very common. Typical mistakes are applying too much pressure with the brush on the face, using a brush that is too scritchy, or just dealing with residual irritation from inadequate lather and improper blade angle.
Technique is very important and do not be afraid to do some practice lathers in a bowl or on your hand/arm until you get the hang of things.
If your bowl lather is too airy and foaming it means you did not use enough product or used too much water.
Good luck.
The cream. Tried face lathering with it, took a bit out of the jar, and into the brush. Straight onto the face. Worked fine like that.
I feel like it's harder to tell when bowl lathering when you have enough water
Oh, that reminds me. After i put cream in the brush, i went back to the jar, and took the smallest amount more to rub onto my wet face. Kind of like using bloomwater as a preshave. That may have helped as well.The trick is to only add a little water at a time. Lather should be like a nice stable yogurt, not airy foam or slime.
You can either "dip and twist" if the cream is not very solid, or if more solid, you can swirl a bit until the brush is well loaded. TOBS cream consistency can vary, but it should always lather very easily when properly used.
If scooping cream out, I recommend an amount the size of 2 shelled almonds or 3 garbanzo beans to start with. You can use less product after you dial things in more. This will work for either bowl or face lathering BTW.
If you scoop, you can smear the cream on the brush or just rub it on your beard area and face lather that way.
Up to you. Many ways to get to the same point. Good luck.
No worries, you'll figure it out soon enough, and continue to fine-tune it from there.Just how BADLY have i been lathering with the completely wrong technique? Or is this just TOBS Maybe? I am ashamed it took me this long to realize i might have been doing something wrong!