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Goodfellas Smile Bayonetta

Little update for those interested. I finally managed to contact the razor manufacturer (through Barbieri Uniti) and exposed my concerns about the design, tolerances, covered tabs, provided them with my measurements, ..., and they, swiftly and honestly, responded the following:

"
I confirm that we have already received a few reports about the possible misalignment of the Bayonetta safety razor blade.
After withdrawing some parts for verification, we replicated the problem but did not find any significant manufacturing anomalies, simply the cap studs have a slight play when they lock into their 2 plate joints (that play is necessary to prevent the studs from locking into the joints, otherwise the razor would no longer open).

To solve the problem, simply pay a little attention to the blade when tightening the razor.
Once we had collected about 50 pieces all 50 of them with a bit of care (as per the video) no longer had the 'problem'.
"

So basically, I was kindly told to deal with it, providing me a video depicting a variant of the top cap and base plate pinching method, which doesn't work reliably enough for me. However, since I was still thinking that the problem was due to the top cap pins being too thin, I took some electrical tape, wrapped the pins increasing their width from 1.81mm to 2.06mm and ... surprise, perfect alignment and blade reveal (at least to my naked eye) in a 100% consistent and repeatable way, no matter how I assemble the razor and with no apparent drawbacks. I might even keep and try the razor tomorrow. As you can see in the attached images, it is a crude and non long lasting solution, but maybe the same can be done with heat shrinking tube or something more durable.
 

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I suspected this blade alignment issue too. Sadly, I came across this thread after I got the Bayonetta. Suprising really, none of the reviewers/members talked about this before in their initial impressions - this was practically the first thing I noticed myself. But figured that bending the blade is part of the technique to get the alignment right.

While, I am not happy with the effort to get the alignment right, once it's there, the shave is quite good. That's me settling and consoling myself. So don't mind me
 
Suprising really, none of the reviewers/members talked about this before in their initial impressions - this was practically the first thing I noticed myself. But figured that bending the blade is part of the technique to get the alignment right.
See my post #50, first bullet point. 😉
While, I am not happy with the effort to get the alignment right, once it's there, the shave is quite good.
Fair enough, but in my opinion it's not an effort to lock/press down the blade on the topcap whilst screwing in the handle... as long as it solves the "alignment issue". Otherwise it's still not what I'd call an effort but an intolerable flaw 😉

However, I hope you can use the shaver without any further issues 😀
 

Phoenixkh

I shaved a fortune
See my post #50, first bullet point. 😉

Fair enough, but in my opinion it's not an effort to lock/press down the blade on the topcap whilst screwing in the handle... as long as it solves the "alignment issue". Otherwise it's still not what I'd call an effort but an intolerable flaw 😉

However, I hope you can use the shaver without any further issues 😀
My Bayonetta is out for a gold re-plate at the moment but when I get it back sometime next week. I'll double check. I make it a habit to inspect a razor after I've loaded up a blade. I've never noticed any misalignment with the Bayonetta. I always load razors with the cap on a micro fiber towel, press the base plate on and then screw and tighten down the handle. I don't know if that makes a difference, but it keeps my fingers safe. The only time I cut my fingers is when I'm taking off those annoying wax dots from some of the blades. <eg>
 
but did not find any significant manufacturing anomalies, simply the cap studs have a slight play when they lock into their 2 plate joints (that play is necessary to prevent the studs from locking into the joints, otherwise the razor would no longer open).
What are they talking about ... in such supposedly precision tools 0,25 mm tolerance is so large that it makes it no more a precision tool. I am amazed at statement that it is so as to prevent joining. I would reckon for forces and time of usage between tightening and loosening of razors one hundredth of a mm is already enough for that. Give it a few for good measure if you will ... but 25x ... As I said imo it stops being precision tool at that tolerances.

How come others do it with tighter tolerances without hiccups, be it SS, aluminium, bronze or whatnot material?
 
What are they talking about ... in such supposedly precision tools 0,25 mm tolerance is so large that it makes it no more a precision tool. I am amazed at statement that it is so as to prevent joining. I would reckon for forces and time of usage between tightening and loosening of razors one hundredth of a mm is already enough for that. Give it a few for good measure if you will ... but 25x ... As I said imo it stops being precision tool at that tolerances.

How come others do it with tighter tolerances without hiccups, be it SS, aluminium, bronze or whatnot material?
Have you used a Bayonetta and had trouble with it? I have no problem using mine.
 
Have you used a Bayonetta and had trouble with it? I have no problem using mine.

Disclaimer. I find the Bayonetta razor head geometry intersting, nice looking and by most accounts a great razor with superb price/performance ratio. I am not trying to dispute any of it. It's the reason why I wisit this thread.

I am merely responding to above observations and reports made by other users that piqued my interest enough for me to respond. Namely some did have found play and looseness when assembling leading to blade misalingment. Manufacturer acknowledges this, and reports that it successfully replicated misalignment "issues" and as a solution suggests a certain assembly procedure to lessen the impact, but which does not work 100% of time for all such users (by above accounts). A user above measured 0,25 mm larger width of hole than the width of slots, which the user then compensated by covering slots with electrical tape which resulted in a more snug fit which resolved the isssue. The manufacturer responded that the wider hole is needed to prevent joining. I was only responding to that specific manufacturer tidbit as I find it strange in view of other CNC razors from different materials and tighter tolerances. -0,25mm tolerance for adjoining metal parts is quite large a tolerance to have in supposedly precision CNC made tools.
 
Your previous post implies less than precise machining. I contend that my razor appears to be made as intended. I draw this conclusion when I compare the results I've measured with the results posted by @lecaront - well within instrument error of our two calipers. Why this design intent? I don't know, I would have to ask the designer. Again, I've had no issues loading a blade and using my razor.
 
It seems like it’s a design choice they made. I’ve seen similar explanations from Shane at Blackland. He‘s said they allow a little more leeway in their DE razors as there is more variance in the tolerance of the various brands of blades. My experience with their Era razor reflects this. I also have CNC razors with tight enough tolerances to automatically align upon tightening and can say I have seen issues with certain blades not fitting well and/or being difficult to remove. Perhaps TGS took this idea further than necessary, but I don’t find it difficult or finicky to load. If the posts were actually misaligned and it was difficult or impossible to align the blade I’d have returned it immediately.
 

Phoenixkh

I shaved a fortune
Mine is at Back Roads Gold for that 24K hardened gold face lift. I’m pretty fussy about the razors I keep around. I know I’m just an SN on the B&B forums but there is no way I’d double the cost of a Bayonetta if I didn’t think it was worth it. I even ordered a Wolfman bronze handle so my Timeless bronze 0.38 and the Bayonetta have a lighter weight handle to share. That’s how much I think of it.
 
See my post #50, first bullet point. 😉

Fair enough, but in my opinion it's not an effort to lock/press down the blade on the topcap whilst screwing in the handle... as long as it solves the "alignment issue". Otherwise it's still not what I'd call an effort but an intolerable flaw 😉

However, I hope you can use the shaver without any further issues 😀
My bad. It escaped my notice. I am still okay with the razor and the shave quality. But to your point of it not being an effort to align the blade, I still disagree.

The design flaw as discussed in the post below stands for me.
Little update for those interested. I finally managed to contact the razor manufacturer (through Barbieri Uniti) and exposed my concerns about the design, tolerances, covered tabs, provided them with my measurements, ..., and they, swiftly and honestly, responded the following:

"
I confirm that we have already received a few reports about the possible misalignment of the Bayonetta safety razor blade.
After withdrawing some parts for verification, we replicated the problem but did not find any significant manufacturing anomalies, simply the cap studs have a slight play when they lock into their 2 plate joints (that play is necessary to prevent the studs from locking into the joints, otherwise the razor would no longer open).

To solve the problem, simply pay a little attention to the blade when tightening the razor.
Once we had collected about 50 pieces all 50 of them with a bit of care (as per the video) no longer had the 'problem'.
"

So basically, I was kindly told to deal with it, providing me a video depicting a variant of the top cap and base plate pinching method, which doesn't work reliably enough for me. However, since I was still thinking that the problem was due to the top cap pins being too thin, I took some electrical tape, wrapped the pins increasing their width from 1.81mm to 2.06mm and ... surprise, perfect alignment and blade reveal (at least to my naked eye) in a 100% consistent and repeatable way, no matter how I assemble the razor and with no apparent drawbacks. I might even keep and try the razor tomorrow. As you can see in the attached images, it is a crude and non long lasting solution, but maybe the same can be done with heat shrinking tube or something more durable.


All being said, the bayonetta is still a good razor for the money it comes for
 
I did a little polishing on mine today.
Same.

20240528_083103-01.jpeg


20 minutes of elbow grease work with some (not overly abrasive) Dursol Shine cream. Thus no mirror polish finish. But I like the "satin finish" look. The "grainy" sandblasted surface is gone. I like it better this way, the surface feels super smooth now.

20240527_110148-01.jpeg

It's already been a great shaver in OEM status, but now it's a looker imo. 🤩👍

Cheers!
 
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Phoenixkh

I shaved a fortune
I like my Bayonetta enough to warrant a 24K hardened gold face lift by Chris Spencer @ Back Roads Gold..... I have it mounted on a newly acquired Wolfman 3/7 with H2 knurling, sitting in a nice Wolfman razor stand. It's even better looking now and the 90mm hollow handle feels just right to me. I do love the OEM handle... great style and grip, but I tend to enjoy handles in the 40 to 45 gram range.

Second standing razor from the right:


Bronze_Gold_Brass_Family.jpg
 
I must admit, I love my razor. I have not had any problem with blade alignment, it gives a smooth BBS, depending on the blade of course. And it's Good Looking too! Now I bought mine on Amazon in the US in April of 2024. Maybe there has been some refinements made to correct some of the problems reported here.
 

Phoenixkh

I shaved a fortune
I
Mine didn't come with a "washer". Did you add yours? Do you find it helpful? Thanks!
I know you didn't address the washer situation question to me, but..... I use both M5 x 10mm OD and smaller diameter M5 x 8mm OD nylon washers. I use them on every razor. The 10mm diameter works for most of them but a few have a more narrow handle neck and the 8mm-s seem to fix that. I think I got mine on eBay but Amazon has them and some hardware stores. No metal to metal contact and it also makes securing the handle a little easier. I ended up buying lots of 100 of each size because the bathroom drain attracts them. <eg> evil grin
 
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