DSLR's - Need Help

[Dennis]

Mo gives good advice. I used to be big into photography. I found what was helpful to be a couple classes on the subject that I took, joining a local "camera club" and shooting with people more knowledgable than I. The camera club was fantastic - you get feedback (whether you like it or not) on what is right and wrong with your composition. The classes were helpful for learning composition basics, but it really isn't anything you couldn't get by just diving in.

Having a digital is not necessary although the instant feedback is devine. People shot for centuries without digital and look at what they were able to do. After getting your feet wet, then you can step up when you know what you like and what you want to accomplish. I have mostly gotten away from photography (no time) and now just carry Canon P&S that I can have full manual control over along with RAW.

Dennis

 

[TraderJoe]

Let me bring something up, though - there's nothing wrong with the camera you have, for what it is. If you're wanting to step up a level in your ability to control the photos you take, you may want to consider something similiar to the Canon S3 IS. It's still a point and shoot, but you have the capability of shooting in various manual modes, or in automatic. It won't be the same as using an SLR, but at least gets your foot in the door.

I definitely recommend getting some sort of image processing software. While the amount of editing you can do to a P&S photo is limited, there are SOME things that can be done without overly affecting picture quality.

I actually get pretty decent shots with my Pentax Optio w10, and i Believe I can control exposure, shutter speed, bracketing, etc. I'm seriously considering playing with this more before "going DSLR"

Joe, I also have all of my old lectures and lab assignments from my photography class in PDF format. Give me a shout if you would like to see them.

PM sent!

I didn't mean to sound like you shouldn't get a DSLR I would recommend getting a mid range DSLR if you're really interested in learning. Canon Rebel XTi or 30D, Nikon D40/50/80 are all great choices, depending on your budget, personal choice, etc. Then you can have extra money to spend on other lenses, which will make a bigger difference than the body. Fisheye lenses are fun although limited in usefulness... I'm hesitant to make a specific recommendation as there are other factors as well. My baseline recommendation for anyone is to go to a local camera shop and hold and play around with them. You can love the specs on a camera, and then when you hold it you might hate it... so it doesn't matter what the specs are, if you don't enjoy and feel comfortable holding it, the process is ruined.

If you want to learn some of the manual stuff (aperture, shutter speed, etc) on a real budget you could stick with a high end point and shoot that offers as much manual control as possible (Canon's A series and G7 maybe). But it's honestly not nearly as fun or as interesting as doing it with an SLR. Although you might lose things like RAW mode, and you'll be at the mercy of only having the one lense.

After awhile it will be a natural progression of learning new stuff and then realizing not only that you want a specific feature or camera, but you'll know specifically why you want it.

Always good to learn, but no, cause that won't teach you anything about camera's or photography, which is what it sounds like you're interested in.

good thoughts Michael, thank you again.

Finally, if you REALLY want to learn photography, as an art, not just taking snapshots. Get the DSLR, it will be useful. But also buy a Canon. An old Canon. NOT A DIGITAL. Not even autofocus. Old and basic. There are a lot of options (and honestly lots of brands other than Canon, but that and Nikon are reliable choices). I would suggest an AE-1. Built kinda like a tank. You can get one on EBAY for a decent price. If you get an old one, it may need to be reconditioned (taken apart, cleaned, new seals, etc.). This should cost about $100. Tons of lenses out there, and all fairly inexpensive. I paid $135 for my all purpose lense, but it was only that much because it is one of the better manual focus zoom lenses Canon made, and very close to mint condition.

Seriously. The real learning tool is an old film SLR. You will learn about lighting, exposure times, apertures, etc, because you will have to. Not only that, it will make you THINK about each shot as you take it, because you can't just erase it if it isn't good. Ideally, you should record the stats for each shot in a little mini notebook you keep with your camera, and refer to it when you get your prints - that way, you learn what did and did not work.

-Mo

This is interesting point, as my dad has that old Nikon SLR, which he says is in good shape and he could've sold it a short while ago to some camera buff for $2,500. He's got quite a few manual lenses as well, including a "bellows". Maybe I should try and steal this one from my dad.

Mo gives good advice. I used to be big into photography. I found what was helpful to be a couple classes on the subject that I took, joining a local "camera club" and shooting with people more knowledgable than I. The camera club was fantastic - you get feedback (whether you like it or not) on what is right and wrong with your composition. The classes were helpful for learning composition basics, but it really isn't anything you couldn't get by just diving in.
Dennis

I've been considering some classes too! Just gotta find a good one I guess

 

[Amyn]

My dad is all into photography. He frequents the following site
http://www.fredmiranda.com is to photographers
what
http://www.badgerandblade is to wet shavers

 

[Joedy]

It's almost religious, the camps vouching for one brand or another, but there is a lot to be said of downward-compatible (read pre-digital) lenses.

Nikon offers a wide swatch of current and previous generation lenses which are compatible with their DSLRs.

http://www.nikonians.org is a wonderful resource and is a great way to judge the type of community support that you can anticipate if you elect to purchase a Nikon DSLR.

I have a D70 and enjoy it immensely.

-joedy

 

[mnealtx]

While an old film SLR will force you to use manual mode, you can do the same with a DSLR by using manual mode. You'll quickly recoup the cost difference between a $200 film SLR and the digital in the money you save on processing and prints. It doesn't take long to run up $300-400 bucks in processing fees shooting 36 exposure rolls.

The basic editing software that comes with the camera is enough to get you started - no photo editing software is going to be able to work miracles, the photographer has to do their part.

Try www.luminous-landscape.com for some great tips and tutorials on photography.

Also, buy "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson for tips on lighting that will help you your entire photographic career.

Above ALL else.... have fun!

 

[castlecraver]

I purchased my Sony Alpha a few months ago, and am quite happy with it. If the impetus is to get more enjoyment and have more control over your pictures, there's no reason to spend more than $1000-1200 for a new kit unit. That said, I fully recognize that Canons and Nikons are largely considered to be superior cameras, and I also looked closely at the Nikon D70, Rebel XTi. They've both gone down in price considerably since I made my purchase. (I think both are planning on releasing newer improved models at that feature level?) You'll find that some DSLR nuts are, dare I say, hopelessly brainwashed devotees to a certain brand, at times surpassing the level of fanboyism seen amongst game console players. The level of pontification on DSLR forums is staggering. This is a big reason I don't bother interacting on them. But still again, there are a lot (they appear to instead post in places like this!) who are very willing to help budding amateurs and don't get preachy. The truth is, you don't need to spend a ton of money to get a camera that's going to make the learning process fun and enlightening, and produce shots you're going to be impressed with and make you encouraged to continue.

When you started wetshaving, you probably didn't pick right up with a Slant+Feather. Nor did you jump right out and buy a ridiculously expensive Merkur Vision. Save the professional grade (and professional price) products for the professionals, and pick up something that gives you the control and enjoyment that you want. You can always upgrade later -- personally, I think the extra money would be much better spent on additional lenses, a flash, a nice tripod, etc rather than stepping right up to a $2000+ model. DSLRs (especially if you can assemble a decent kit) have a pretty fair resale value within a few years -- if you really find that you want to move up to a more professional quality camera, you always have that option. At worst, you'll have a tried-and-true "backup" camera to keep in your bag.

I'm also going to dissent with some here and advocate that you go with the DSLR over the film SLR. If you're anything like me, you want the instant gratification. It's soooo nice to be able to try an aperture or exposure setting, snap a shot, see the preview, and be able to decide on the spot what adjustments you'd like to make and have another go. Most seasoned shooters (myself not included) don't need to bracket their shots or use trial-and-error like this, but its made the learning process soooo much more enjoyable for me when I can immediately analyze what I need to adjust. Plus, the processing capability you'll have on your computer is just incredible -- its fun to play with, and as I know you enjoy wetshaving, I figure you'll want to have full methodical control from start to finish. In the end, digital is less expensive, quicker, more flexible and fun. (IMHO)

 

[moses]

I'm also going to dissent with some here and advocate that you go with the DSLR over the film SLR. If you're anything like me, you want the instant gratification. It's soooo nice to be able to try an aperture or exposure setting, snap a shot, see the preview, and be able to decide on the spot what adjustments you'd like to make and have another go. Most seasoned shooters (myself not included) don't need to bracket their shots or use trial-and-error like this, but its made the learning process soooo much more enjoyable for me when I can immediately analyze what I need to adjust. Plus, the processing capability you'll have on your computer is just incredible -- its fun to play with, and as I know you enjoy wetshaving, I figure you'll want to have full methodical control from start to finish. In the end, digital is less expensive, quicker, more flexible and fun. (IMHO)

Hmm..... There is a learning tool here that I had not adequately considered. I still feel like there is value to learning with film. But still, with film, you have to take your shot, make your notes, and compare days or weeks later to see if it worked. With digital, you can get that feedback much sooner, which does seem a good thing for the learning process. As long as you make some effort to really experiment, pay attention to results, and learn.

-Mo

 

[Buzz]

I can see there are a lot of pro-digital-cameramen on B&B. I've currently got a point&shoot waterproof camera [Pentax Optio w10] bought primarily for use while kayaking. It also works well out of the water (SOTD pics ), but I'd like to get a high end DSLR or similar camera. Keep in mind that I would consider myself a true novice when it comes to photography.

I have no idea where to start.

Buying a great camera won't make you a great photographer any more than having great pots & pans makes you a world-class chef, but having nice equipment makes a hobby more fun and interesting.

I have been into DSLRs for awhile. I have a Canon 20D that I'm delighted with. I also find get a lot of use out of my pocket sized point & shoot camera.

I agree completely with mnealtx. My recommendation for a great value DSLR at a reasonable price point would be the Canon XTi with the upgraded 17-85 lens. Great equipment. You can add lenses and other accessories as your experience grows.

 

[Buzz]

Hmm..... There is a learning tool here that I had not adequately considered. I still feel like there is value to learning with film. But still, with film, you have to take your shot, make your notes, and compare days or weeks later to see if it worked.

I love film. I've spent many hours in the darkroom developing and printing my own.

However, I think digital as a far superior learning tool and costs less overall. The ability to take the same shot over & over until you get exactly what you are looking for is a major advantage.

You can learn all the basic fundamentals with digital, and turn out some really great photos in the process.