Comparisons between '58 and '59 Red Tips

[Sodapopjones]

So I just received today my '59 Red Tip from the bay, with the exception of spotting on the handle and one side of the safety bar that wasn't shown, I couldn't be happier, prices being on par with B/S/T.

However, I never thought there were differences in the lot of Red Tips, however I was wrong.

'58 weighs 2 grams more 67 grams vs the '59 65 grams both loaded with the same blade, Red Pack IP's.

Also it appears the bottom of the handle on the TTO mechanism is different, the '58 has what looks to be a cross stamped fastener while the '59 is a rod and c-clip(Crimp) design.

*Edit, it also appears the plating hues are different, however this could be due to previous owners, since I shined both up with the same method*
*Edit #2* also since I had to bend the safety bar back into place I used my '58 as a guide and it also appears the safety bar is skinnier on the '59*
So why is it they changed the design on the '59?

Sorry if the question has been answered before.

Edit: To add pics and updates to first post as this thread may be used for informational purposes

BTW '58 = D-3 '59 = E-1

Still haven't used the '59 yet

However looking at things again, its hard to see in the photos but, actually the '58 lined up exactly to the top the head of the '59, the '58 is a couple mm longer, probably why the handle on the '59 is a couple mm wider?

Also the lighting doesn't capture the hue of the plating that well, but if you look right you can see the '58 is more "Silver" while the '59 is more "Nickle" looking. (Could also just be how the previous owners cleaned each one)

Also knurling pattern is slightly different if you look closely in the photos you will see as well as the actual "Red Tip" area.

Balance wise I'm liking the feel of the '59 feels perfect throughout the handle in my hand even though its 2 grams lighter.

Picture 1. D-3 '58 Left, E-1 '59 Right
Picture 2. D-3 end cap assembly
Picture 3. E-1 end cap assembly

 

[rainman]

I thought they were all the same. All of the ones I owned I believe were '56 models. Sounds like the 59 was cheapened a bit. Any shaving differences?

 

[texbilly]

Really? Photos always help!

 

[Sodapopjones]

I got home late didn't use it yet, I'll try and get some pictures up later today!

 

[valmara1971]

The last 2 pics are not much help brother, you camera auto focused on your hand which looks great BTW. However the difference is very clear on the first picture they are not the same razor at all. I'm no expert at all but is one of them not a red tip after all? Did the seller paint up a flare instead? Don't know I could be talking rubbish and if so I apologise in advance.

 

[Sodapopjones]

The last 2 pics are not much help brother, you camera auto focused on your hand which looks great BTW. However the difference is very clear on the first picture they are not the same razor at all. I'm no expert at all but is one of them not a red tip after all? Did the seller paint up a flare instead? Don't know I could be talking rubbish and if so I apologise in advance.

Its kind of hard, I was trying to tilt the ends into the light so you could see the difference, I took more pictures those are the only ones that worked.

*edit*

Flair Tip has different knurling and doesn't weigh enough just looked that up...

The blade gaps on the Red Tips looks the same, I'm just thinking they changed the design on the last year.

 

[T Rick]

The last 2 pics are not much help brother, you camera auto focused on your hand which looks great BTW. However the difference is very clear on the first picture they are not the same razor at all. I'm no expert at all but is one of them not a red tip after all? Did the seller paint up a flare instead? Don't know I could be talking rubbish and if so I apologise in advance.

They're both Red Tips. Compare the knurling to any other Flare Tip, it is unique on the Red Tips.

And FWIW, I can see the difference in the inside of the flared tips fine.

Interesting to note these differences in Red Tips, that's one razor that has eluded me until now. Just bought my first on the 'Bay two days ago (thinking it was a '56, B3 if memory serves).

 

[valmara1971]

I understand we cant all have studios like so many must have to produce such great pictures of razors we see here so often. I have an idea, post them to me and I'll take pics for you

 

[texbilly]

Interesting. The end of my B-2 (1956) is just like your '58. Was 1959 a transition year? Or is this another example of Gillette using extra parts from another razor? Although I can't think of another razor that had the larger diameter handle/TTO knob as found on the Red Tip. Perhaps Guido or one of the other Gillette students can weigh in....

Another thought - were there any similar parts on the British version? At least I think there was a British Red.

 

[valmara1971]

Until AG gets here and clears it up in a jiffy was just looking here
http://countryjoescollectiblestuff.com/10-21-redtip.html

looks like the 59 is confirmed.

 

[BroJohn]

SodaPop --

Yes, '59 was a transition year, and the last of the red-tips. Gillette introduced the adjustable (the 'fatboy') to general sales in '59, so the different versions of colored tipped superspeeds were no longer needed.

Over the span of production of the red-tip, there were several incremental, evolutionary changes to the product. I wasn't aware of the '58~'59 change you illustrate. But there was a significant change to the red colored knob between Q2 and Q3 of '56.

If you examine the entire span of production of the superspeed, you'll find quite a number of little changes along the way. During that time the superspeed underwent a couple of complete re-designs, including a spin-off design in the 'Knack'.

Most of the incremental changes were to facilitate and/or simplify production or packaging and were unlikely to have any material effect on the resulting shave in use.

-- John Gehman

 

[Sodapopjones]

SodaPop --

Yes, '59 was a transition year, and the last of the red-tips. Gillette introduced the adjustable (the 'fatboy') to general sales in '59, so the different versions of colored tipped superspeeds were no longer needed.

Over the span of production of the red-tip, there were several incremental, evolutionary changes to the product. I wasn't aware of the '58~'59 change you illustrate. But there was a significant change to the red colored knob between Q2 and Q3 of '56.

If you examine the entire span of production of the superspeed, you'll find quite a number of little changes along the way. During that time the superspeed underwent a couple of complete re-designs, including a spin-off design in the 'Knack'.

Most of the incremental changes were to facilitate and/or simplify production or packaging and were unlikely to have any material effect on the resulting shave in use.

-- John Gehman

That makes a lot of sense, its hard to see, but the fastener on the tip for the '59 reminds me of whats on the adjustable versions for that year.

I just shaved with it, the '59 seems just a tad bit more aggressive and feels more balanced while shaving.

Just to make sure its not all in my head, I will give the '59 another go tomorrow then try the '58 on Monday.

 

[Sodapopjones]

I sort of feel retarded, the reason why it felt more aggressive a bent safety bar

I showed it to my Avatar to make sure I wasn't crazy*Shes not my SWMBO or GF soo* and she was like, yeah its a little crooked

I sent a message expressing that I wasn't entirely happy he left out some of the details/defects regarding said razors condition and that I had to fix a bent bar.

He has offered to refund my money.

 

[dbconlin]

I just was outbid on a 58 (D-4) redtip on eBay. If you search the completed listings you will see it.

The pictures of this razor clearly indicate it is of the same type as the 59 posted in this thread, so D-4 must have been the first production of this variation.

 

[memoryleak]

I sort of feel retarded, the reason why it felt more aggressive a bent safety bar

I showed it to my Avatar to make sure I wasn't crazy*Shes not my SWMBO or GF soo* and she was like, yeah its a little crooked

I sent a message expressing that I wasn't entirely happy he left out some of the details/defects regarding said razors condition and that I had to fix a bent bar.

He has offered to refund my money.

In which case. I'd take him up on the refund offer, the bastiche!

 

[Mr_Marbles]

Came across this the other day. It is Asylum Guido's SS post from B&B, but the comments cover the differences in Red Tips.

http://www.theshaveden.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9070

 

[amishmotorboat]

I have a c4 superspeed with that little retaining thingy in there instead of a screw. My B superspeeds have screws. They must have switched different models away from screws at different times.

 

[*King G*]

good post- I never noticed a difference either. Thanks for the helpful info.

 

[the beav]

Interesting info-thanks. I have four red tips but none are '59s, unfortunately.