New Zealand bans smoking for birth years 2009 and up

[Legion]

That just sounds hilarious to me. What ailment do they claim is treated with nicotine? Or, more so, how do the doctors decide who needs a prescription and who doesn't?

The same way they know to prescribe any drug, I guess.

I'd assume if they do prescribe nicotine vape it would be to help people transition off cigarettes, and eventually quit smoking. But my feeling is a doctor would be more likely to prescribe other items for that task. How often vaping juice is actually prescribed in real life, I have no idea. My guess is not very often at all.

 

[Claudel Xerxes]

The same way they know to prescribe any drug, I guess.

I'd assume if they do prescribe nicotine vape it would be to help people transition off cigarettes, and eventually quit smoking. But my feeling is a doctor would be more likely to prescribe other items for that task. How often vaping juice is actually prescribed in real life, I have no idea. My guess is not very often at all.

I get what you're saying now.

 

[luvmysuper]

That just sounds hilarious to me. What ailment do they claim is treated with nicotine? Or, more so, how do the doctors decide who needs a prescription and who doesn't?

You just have to find the right doctor!

 

[luvmysuper]

From EuroNews.net

New Zealand is not the only nation pushing to ban smoking for the next generations. In June, a report commissioned by the UK government recommended raising the legal smoking age each year to phase out tobacco use among young people.
Denmark also unveiled similar plans earlier this year, but the government said such a move would require changes to the EU's Tobacco Products Directive. A citizens' initiative later petitioned the European Commission to ban the sale of tobacco and nicotine products to EU citizens born after 2010.

 

[silverlifter]

I’d like to hear someone that lives in New Zealand’s take on this.

I'm in favour. And what makes this different from the other examples in the thread is that eating red meat doesn't have the potential to kill the people around you.

Note: I was a pack a day smoker for twenty odd years, so am now a sanctimonious non-smoker.

 

[luvmysuper]

I'm in favour. And what makes this different from the other examples in the thread is that eating red meat doesn't have the potential to kill the people around you.

Note: I was a pack a day smoker for twenty odd years, so am now a sanctimonious non-smoker.

Drinking alcohol does, as does smoking marijuana.
Impaired driving stats back that up.

 

[Alum Ladd]

That's an easy fix. Just make vape juice containing nicotine prohibited without a doctors prescription, as they did here. Job done.

In the UK, Public Health England, who were endorsed in their findings by the NHS, estimates that vaping is 95% safer than smoking.

It's not nicotine that kills. In fact it's fairly harmless in of itself. The issue with smoking is that there are about 100+ very carcenogenic chemicals that you have to ingest to get to the nicotine.

My partner is in a very senior position in the UK Public Health system, and the policy here is to encourage smokers to transfer to vaping.

I am a very keen vaper myself. It's a good way to get your nicotine in a vastly more risk-free way. I enjoy nicotine. It's pretty similar to caffeine in my life. It's insane for countries to limit vaping on a spurious health basis. It seems actually that countries going down that path just want to banish any lingering 'memory' of cigarettes or smoking. Pure social engineering zealotry.

It will be amusing to see how the legacy media of those countries, when screening classic films from pre 1990 will explain the cigarettes vastly shown being smoked by the characters. Maybe a government 5 minute pre-film lecture on the evils of the past? Rather Orwellian.

This is an interesting paper from Cancer Research Yorkshire, which gives a fairly good picture of the current thinking in the UK.

https://yorkshirecancerresearch.org...min/vaping-productsposition-statement2021.pdf

 

[silverlifter]

Drinking alcohol does, as does smoking marijuana.
Impaired driving stats back that up.

Both those things are already illegal here... No argument from me.

 

[Claudel Xerxes]

Drinking alcohol does, as does smoking marijuana.
Impaired driving stats back that up.

Not to mention, I don't know of anybody who has smoked tobacco, then became so impaired or enraged that they beat their spouse or children or got into a fight at a bar, etc.. Alcohol, on the other hand...

 

[LRod]

In the UK, Public Health England, who were endorsed in their findings by the NHS, estimates that vaping is 95% safer than smoking.

It's not nicotine that kills. In fact it's fairly harmless in of itself. The issue with smoking is that there are about 100+ very carcenogenic chemicals that you have to ingest to get to the nicotine.

My partner is in a very senior position in the UK Public Health system, and the policy here is to encourage smokers to transfer to vaping.

I am a very keen vaper myself. It's a good way to get your nicotine in a vastly more risk-free way. I enjoy nicotine. It's pretty similar to caffeine in my life. It's insane for countries to limit vaping on a spurious health basis. It seems actually that countries going down that path just want to banish any lingering 'memory' of cigarettes or smoking. Pure social engineering zealotry.

It will be amusing to see how the legacy media of those countries, when screening classic films from pre 1990 will explain the cigarettes vastly shown being smoked by the characters. Maybe a government 5 minute pre-film lecture on the evils of the past? Rather Orwellian.

This is an interesting paper from Cancer Research Yorkshire, which gives a fairly good picture of the current thinking in the UK.

https://yorkshirecancerresearch.org...min/vaping-productsposition-statement2021.pdf

You all in the UK have the right approach!
I was a 1.5 pack a day smoker and the only thing that made me quit was vaping (4 years ago!) I have read all the research on nicotine and as you say, it's harmless on it's own. Is vaping 100% safe? No! I'm aware of that but I'm 100% sure that it's safer than inhaling combustible smoke from a cigarette. And I enjoy it and no longer even think about cigarettes. I used to cough and felt like I was gurgling when I would breathe while sleeping at night.
Guess what? Within a couple weeks after I quit and started vaping, it all went away. And I got my energy back and no longer felt out of breath. So yes, it cant be as bad as cigarettes!
I feel really bad for NZ as this sets them on the wrong path!
It starts with Tobacco and never ends from there!

 

[LRod]

I think that if this works get ready to see it everywhere that has a public health system. The governments will justify banning tobacco products due to the healthcare costs associated with its use. It’s either ban the tobacco that 8% of the population uses or raise taxes on the entire population to help pay for the 8% healthcare.

I believe the numbers are about 3x more than that amount. From what I've read, Tobacco use in the USA is about 21% of the population and about 23% worldwide!

 

[JAHE]

From EuroNews.net

New Zealand is not the only nation pushing to ban smoking for the next generations. In June, a report commissioned by the UK government recommended raising the legal smoking age each year to phase out tobacco use among young people.
Denmark also unveiled similar plans earlier this year, but the government said such a move would require changes to the EU's Tobacco Products Directive. A citizens' initiative later petitioned the European Commission to ban the sale of tobacco and nicotine products to EU citizens born after 2010.

Leaving aside the legal aspects, with the lobbyism being active in the EU, such a thing won’t ever happen in the EU...

 

[Alum Ladd]

You all in the UK have the right approach!
I was a 1.5 pack a day smoker and the only thing that made me quit was vaping (4 years ago!) I have read all the research on nicotine and as you say, it's harmless on it's own. Is vaping 100% safe? No! I'm aware of that but I'm 100% sure that it's safer than inhaling combustible smoke from a cigarette. And I enjoy it and no longer even think about cigarettes. I used to cough and felt like I was gurgling when I would breathe while sleeping at night.
Guess what? Within a couple weeks after I quit and started vaping, it all went away. And I got my energy back and no longer felt out of breath. So yes, it cant be as bad as cigarettes!
I feel really bad for NZ as this sets them on the wrong path!
It starts with Tobacco and never ends from there!

I was a 10-30 a day smoker (rising as the years went by) from 1979 to 2019. I bought the excellent Innokin T20S and have not smoked a cigarette since. An instant stop.

I can also report very similar physical benefits to yours. My BP has become far lower, physical energy has greatly improved considering my age, and I can carry a 40 lb pack a few miles. No coughs and far less colds, etc. In fact only 3. Also oddly I do not perspire any more in hot weather, apart from extreme humidity.

I can only thank the Lord and some clever science for the vaping systems now available.

As a choice for getting folks to stop using combustable cigarettes while still allowing them the 'vice' of nicotine, it is clearly an excellent route. Also it has arguably saved hundreds of thousands of lives, maybe even in the millions worldwide

However, there are some in the PH sector who loathe the concept of 'smoking' and see the eradication of any vestige of cigarettes, even in pop culture or folk memory, as being a good thing. Vaping is seen as the same thing. Oh, and there are some who wish to limit and ultimately ban caffeine, going forward.

Odd, to my mind. Maybe they are just fanatics. Considering some are raging alcoholics. Insider stuff

 

[Claudel Xerxes]

Guess what? Within a couple weeks after I quit and started vaping, it all went away. And I got my energy back and no longer felt out of breath. So yes, it cant be as bad as cigarettes!

Lol I've had the opposite reaction. I don't like vaping for a number of reasons, but when I tried vaping, I had a good amount of lung gurgling & respiratory issues only after I tried it.

 

[LRod]

Lol I've had the opposite reaction. I don't like vaping for a number of reasons, but when I tried vaping, I had a good amount of lung gurgling & respiratory issues only after I tried it.

I guess not everyone reacts the same. I have a few friends at work that also quit cigarettes with vaping. None have had any issues! They're all overall in better health. What I do recall is that it took a couple days to get used to it, but by the third or fourth day it felt normal.

 

[cleanshaved]

I’d like to hear someone that lives in New Zealand’s take on this.

Smoking is trending down here, and this will affect a very small amount of people.

I had no idea the law had passed, let alone it was even being debated, until I saw this thread in the new threads,
Given the government has set a smoke free NZ target by 2025, this comes as no surprise. Okay they say smoke free by 2025 but then they slipped in just 5% of the population smoking by 2025, ha nice save lol. Stats have it as 85% nonsmokers in NZ now.
The government has taxed, taxed and then taxed some more.
Social change with moving the old ways from smoking wherever you want, to almost being an outcast, having limited places to smoke.

How will it unfold? I don't think it will be smooth sailing. There are always ways around for those who want to regardless of the law. There's already a raise in aggravated robbery targeting cigarettes over the years with the price to buy them. I don't think those people will care who they on sell them to. Know an older friend to buy for you, get a fake ID etc etc
Hmmm the law says you can't sell to a certain age, but I don't see it as an offence to be that age and smoking.

 

[Multum in parvo]

Smoking is trending down here, and this will affect a very small amount of people.

I had no idea the law had passed, let alone it was even being debated, until I saw this thread in the new threads,
Given the government has set a smoke free NZ target by 2025, this comes as no surprise. Okay they say smoke free by 2025 but then they slipped in just 5% of the population smoking by 2025, ha nice save lol. Stats have it as 85% nonsmokers in NZ now.
The government has taxed, taxed and then taxed some more.
Social change with moving the old ways from smoking wherever you want, to almost being an outcast, having limited places to smoke.

How will it unfold? I don't think it will be smooth sailing. There are always ways around for those who want to regardless of the law. There's already a raise in aggravated robbery targeting cigarettes over the years with the price to buy them. I don't think those people will care who they on sell them to. Know an older friend to buy for you, get a fake ID etc etc
Hmmm the law says you can't sell to a certain age, but I don't see it as an offence to be that age and smoking.

It is not so much the ban itself as I said above, but the total exclusion of a part of society pro futuro. If this kind of law making takes hold then it opens a real Pandora's box.

Lets turn the argument but stick with the same logic:

THC is illegal in my jurisdiction (feel free to insert your vice/pain point of choice).

There are currently discussions to legalize it for recreational purposes as some/many other countries did in the last couple of years. There might even be consenus among the people on how to tackle this matter.

GOVERNMENT:

So lets legalize it, but ONLY for people who turn 21 AFTER December 31st 2022!

How would you feel as an Adult, Voter, Tax payer to be excluded from a right only because of AGE?

 

[luvmysuper]

Leaving aside the legal aspects, with the lobbyism being active in the EU, such a thing won’t ever happen in the EU...

...Said everyone who was ever nanny'd by their Government!

 

[Salty O'Rourke]

I’m not versed in Anglo-Saxon law but under current EU regulations I don’t believe it would fly. All men are equal before the law and such. This creates a kind of 2 class society where some are basically discriminated by birth…

Europeans smoke like chimneys, it's the first thing you notice when you deplane at a major EU airport. In German airports tobacco companies sponsor smoking rooms complete with WiFi and laptop work areas. Sidewalks and other public areas are full of smokers. Try to ban smoking in the EU and the torches and pitchforks will come out.

 

[Rob72]

Europeans smoke like chimneys, it's the first thing you notice when you deplane at a major EU airport. In German airports tobacco companies sponsor smoking rooms complete with WiFi and laptop work areas. Sidewalks and other public areas are full of smokers. Try to ban smoking in the EU and the torches and pitchforks will come out.

Then the MP5ks, riot helmets & gas. When the little people get uppity, they need a reminder of who's in charge.

Socialized medicine is about cost containment and keeping the 14-45 year old population healthy to work, ensuring that revenue comes in to sustain the governing class and allow a measure of communal welfare. After 45, or there abouts, you see the graduated care model- if you have extra $$ you get the care, if you didn't save enough, after your ~50% taxes(federal, state, local, export, etc..), you have comfort care until expiration.