Unless there was a reason to use progressive gassing (e.g., different sized gas ports on each side) or progressive spring loading, they should run simultaneously. I am assuming that the springs cause each piston to touch the bolt carrier simultaneously. If one is not touching, it will peen the fool out of the piston, the carrier or both. I believe the different carrier marks are relating to marginal machining differences in the squaring of the carrier face or the piston heads, which should not have any practical meaning in operation or wear.I don’t own a semi- auto combat shotgun... Yet.
But looking at the diagram, are we sure the shorter piston isn’t purposely designed not to touch the bolt simultaneously with the longer piston?
Ya know, kinda like riding a 10 speed bike? In order to slow down on that 10 speed without flipping over, ya gotta pull the right hand brake that slows the rear tire first, just before you hit the left hand brake that slows the front tire?
Revolution Armory Impact R4
- Thread starter Esox
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #22
I don’t own a semi- auto combat shotgun... Yet.
But looking at the diagram, are we sure the shorter piston isn’t purposely designed not to touch the bolt simultaneously with the longer piston?
Ya know, kinda like riding a 10 speed bike? In order to slow down on that 10 speed without flipping over, ya gotta pull the right hand brake that slows the rear tire first, just before you hit the left hand brake that slows the front tire?
Got me man, I just work here, or use too lol.
I dont see what you mean by looking at the exploded view but I would think they should operate in unison. However... after I put the gas pistons back in, I must have dome something because most of the play that was there, is gone. It must not have been seated right or something. Theres still a tiny bit of play, I can hear it but I cant see it so it should be less than .004 and I'll guess .002. I dont see it being an issue, but I'll be finding out soon enough.
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- #23
Yep, I'm with you on this and we'll see but I dont expect it to be a problem. The peened bolt rails were a pretty serious issue on the early clones. Theres a YT vid of exactly that happening on a guys first use with a Charles Daly. I think he got 5 or 6 shots out of it and one side of the bolt was basically peeled right off.
Skip ahead to 22 minutes and when he tears it down he is...not a happy shooter. This is why I wanted to put heavy loads through it right out of the box. If that was going to happen, it would have with those 3" shells.
From what I've gathered that was more of a problem with the lower end clones, especially the Charles Daly that I believe is still the least expensive one.
Charles Daly CA612 M4 Semi-Automatic Shotgun | Cabela's Canada
• Black synthetic adjustable stock with pistol grip • 18-3/4" barrel The Charles Daly CA612 M4 is a semi-automatic with all the premium features expected from top-of-the-line shotguns. An inertia-driven rotary bolt system ensures flawless performance in the field. Chrome-lined chambers and...
There were also reports of the Sulun Tac-12 having heat treat issues but I believe thats been sorted out. The Charles Daly likely is as well and I was tempted to buy one for that price but the finishing is on par with the price. I looked at a used Sulan Tac-12 at a local shop a month ago and passed, mainly because they're anodized, not Cerakote, and I dont know which generation it is.
SULUN ARMS TAC 12 BLK/SYN SEMI AUTO SHOTGUN 12GA X 3" 18.7" BBL 5 SHOT
SULUN ARMS TAC 12 BLK/SYN SEMI AUTO SHOTGUN 12GA
It comes with a fixed pistol grip stock as well.
There were also reports of the bolt rails inside the receiver galling. I dont see any of that in mine either and its possible that was caused by improper care or lubrication but again, it was blamed on poor heat treat. Heat treating aluminum is apparently a tricky and complex process to get the strength required on firearms.
As I mention earlier, all the research I did pointed to the Impact R4 as the solid choice. When the guy at the shop took it out of the box to show me and I had a quick look at it I just laid it back in the box and said sold.
Tillsonburg Gun Shop
tillsonburggunshop.com
With $50 off that price and a 40 minute drive to get there, how could I not lol.
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- #25
Step one complete.
Step two coming up.
$125 later.
Two boxes Federal 2 3/4" 1 1/4oz slugs and a Magpul MS3 but they didnt have the QD connectors I needed...or do I? I can lean into that sling tight.
Step two coming up.
$125 later.
Two boxes Federal 2 3/4" 1 1/4oz slugs and a Magpul MS3 but they didnt have the QD connectors I needed...or do I? I can lean into that sling tight.
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
One thing I like is the fact you can pretty much replace anything which breaks with a Benelli M4 part. If stuff doesn't break then it is good stuff. If it breaks you can replace it with better kit and eventually end up with an real M4.
Yours is looking good, Mike.
Didn't Charles Daly used to be a top tier brand?
Happy shaves,
Jim
Yours is looking good, Mike.
Didn't Charles Daly used to be a top tier brand?
Happy shaves,
Jim
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- #27
The Benelli carrier is aluminum too, as far as I can find out.
The Stoeger M3000, I thought about one of them to and a good friend has their 3 Gun model.
Those are Benelli M2 clones. The Benelli inertia system, not the ARGO gas system. According to him, it kicks. Hard. He's not recoil sensitive either. I've hunted with him for years, Moose and everything else. His Moose rifle was a Remington .338 Ultra Mag. I shot a Sako .338 Lapua.
Funny story about those two guns. When my club was doing the rebuild, one of the members at the time was the buyer for General Dynamics. He said he could supply the armour plate for the indoor backstop. The same plate used on the Stryker APC's. So, to test it, they called me down with my Lapua, and I called him and he took his Ultra Mag down. Set the plate at 75 or 80 yards and I let him shoot first. He was shooting factory loaded A-Square Dead Tough 250grn bullets. I was shooting the old Winchester Fail Safe 230grn handloaded to 3150fps. I shot after he did and we walked down. His Dead Tough left a smudge we wiped of with our thumbs. My handload went clean through and left it fractured in a 1" radius.
Needless to say, hes not recoil sensitive and if he complains about recoil, its something to think about. I wanted super fast cycling and little recoil, which is just what I'll have shooting a load of 2 3/4" 6 or 7 1/2 shot or something out of this R4, with the odd mag full of slugs as needed.
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- #28
I believe they still have a high end shotgun line but, not sure. It was never a brand I paid much attention to.
When I was in the shop spending money I asked the guy about parts. He said if you need any just buy Benelli, which is fine but, he went on to say that the importers of these clones, especially the Canuck brand, "are bringing in fewer and fewer small parts". I paid attention to that because there is no aftermarket supplier of M4 bolts or gas parts that I'm aware of and I've looked. I'm not worried but its something I'll be keeping my eye on.
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- #29
Stoeger M3000/M3500 Bolt Assembly Black
Check out the deal on Stoeger M3000/M3500 Bolt Assembly Black at MGW
Hmmm.
Ah, we may be talking at cross purposes. "Carrier" is the black (steel) body around the chromed bolt.
Yes, inertial guns always kick more than gas, that energy goes straight back. You can play with them to some degree, getting the bolt lightened and increasing the mainspring weight and using OR3Guns mainspring regulator plug for fine tuning, but even then...
Yes, inertial guns always kick more than gas, that energy goes straight back. You can play with them to some degree, getting the bolt lightened and increasing the mainspring weight and using OR3Guns mainspring regulator plug for fine tuning, but even then...
Yup. Drive out the rear pin, and put your tail on that one. Many moons ago, I did a pictoral series on SGN World showing how to tune up the Stoeger M2000, and the vast majority of parts are interchangeable with some fitting. I was noticing that your trigger group looks more Stoeger than Benelli.Stoeger M3000/M3500 Bolt Assembly Black
Check out the deal on Stoeger M3000/M3500 Bolt Assembly Black at MGWwww.midwestgunworks.com
Hmmm.
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- #32
I think the trigger group is a mishmash of what they had, or could buy inexpensively, on hand, yeah.
The problem is, and its an increasing problem, Benelli M4 bolts are becoming scarce. Midwest is sold out of the M3000 bolt. Last week I had a look around and I could find one Benelli M4 bolt and 1 gas piston in Canada. $268CAD for the bare bolt with tail and $114 for the piston. Not a bad price really...
This is the thing, they've sold so many of these clones that, I think, certain parts are becoming scarce because of issues popping up over time. Compound that with the heat treating issues of the early models and it might take some time for Benelli to build up stock again. That of course, assumes they do. I believe the M4 is still a US Issue firearm so parts should be around for at least the foreseeable future.
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- #34
I dont see where you'd have any problems but I'm not very familiar with US State or Federal laws. In Canada, I can by extended magazines that are illegal to use. Thats the only thing I'm aware of here. I cant speak about the US outside of 922r and I honestly dont understand all of that but the video below explains it and there are several more about it.
Parts suppliers are fairly plentiful but among the most respected seem to be Taran Tactical, FFT, RX Arms(Canada), Benelli Parts, RDSC (Canada) and GG&G.
FFT is pricey but seems to have a stable stock supply for many things. RX Arms is a smaller Canadian company and he makes all his own parts so the demand often appears to deplete his stock quickly but, his work is among the most respected that I've read about.
The only parts that are scarce are bolts, pistons and possibly gas plug caps and O rings but those can likely be sourced from Benelli without much problem. I havent checked though.
- Thread starter
- #35
I gave the pistons and bolt a quick clean and measured the pistons.
Left: 121.58mm/4.7866"
Right: 121.33mm/4.7767"
Length Difference: 0.0099"
Bolt Contact Face: 0.0019" out of round
I guessed about .002" of play so I wasnt far off. I dont see any issues with them and when I put it back together I gave the bolt rails a touch of grease and the front of the bolt where the pistons make contact also got a tiny bit of grease.
I likely wont get to the club for a while and now that I have a sling on it, it needs a case because it no longer fits the one I was using lol. Accessories will quickly equal the price of the shotgun haha. Theres a gun show coming up at the end of the month. I'm going with an old friend and will have a good look around and see what other bits I can find. I need a QD front sling mount because the sling creates a bit of a hassle taking it apart to clean and I need to find out if an MLOK will fit the sling loop in the stock.
Left: 121.58mm/4.7866"
Right: 121.33mm/4.7767"
Length Difference: 0.0099"
Bolt Contact Face: 0.0019" out of round
I guessed about .002" of play so I wasnt far off. I dont see any issues with them and when I put it back together I gave the bolt rails a touch of grease and the front of the bolt where the pistons make contact also got a tiny bit of grease.
I likely wont get to the club for a while and now that I have a sling on it, it needs a case because it no longer fits the one I was using lol. Accessories will quickly equal the price of the shotgun haha. Theres a gun show coming up at the end of the month. I'm going with an old friend and will have a good look around and see what other bits I can find. I need a QD front sling mount because the sling creates a bit of a hassle taking it apart to clean and I need to find out if an MLOK will fit the sling loop in the stock.
- Thread starter
- #36
Deal of the week!
41" Blackhawk case for $42. Tag says $75.95 but scanned at $41.99.
Fits like a glove and dont even have to collapse the stock.
41" Blackhawk case for $42. Tag says $75.95 but scanned at $41.99.
Fits like a glove and dont even have to collapse the stock.
Nice!
- Thread starter
- #38
I was talking to my nephew last night and he sent me these pics of ammo prices from a Walmart in Alberta.
I had to ask him if those were real or photoshopped lol. I still cant believe it and some are even sold out...
Because of that I checked prices at a local gun shop here and saw this.
With tax here, that box of 20 shells is $413.52. Unbelievable.
I had to ask him if those were real or photoshopped lol. I still cant believe it and some are even sold out...
Because of that I checked prices at a local gun shop here and saw this.
With tax here, that box of 20 shells is $413.52. Unbelievable.
Just…. Wow.
- Thread starter
- #40
I had to move some guns around from the corner of the livingroom to the cabinet. One of them was an Ithaca Mag 10 and to fit it in the cabinet I have to take the barrel off. It was my brother in laws and now my nephews so aside from shooting it a few times I never really looked at it but I did happen to notice it has a gas system similar to the Benelli M4 ARGO system. I only snapped this one quick pic but you get the idea.
Very robust gas piston, and it had better be for the loads that have gone through that thing.
Once I had it wiped down and put away I got the old Remington 1100 out for upcoming Trap shooting and thought I better pull it apart and make sure it's in running condition.
Thats with about 10,000 trap loads through it and when I put it in the cabinet about 15 years ago, it only got a quick wipe down. Complete tear down, cleaning and oiling and its back up to the job at hand.
Cleaned up and ready to go.
While I had it in my hand I thought I'd run the action a few times and compare it to the R4. That Remington is slick and well used, its an old one. Bought by my uncle when they first came out in the 1960's and has who knows how many shells through it but it runs fine and it even ran fine when I put it away years ago. Compared to this R4 though, its half as slick and smooth and the recoil spring is considerably stiffer. I'll bet why thats why it cycles slower and I'll also bet thats why its still running all these years later.
Gun show tomorrow. Cases of trap loads are on the list along with, if I can find one, of these. I should have kept my Trap/Skeet set...
Very robust gas piston, and it had better be for the loads that have gone through that thing.
Once I had it wiped down and put away I got the old Remington 1100 out for upcoming Trap shooting and thought I better pull it apart and make sure it's in running condition.
Thats with about 10,000 trap loads through it and when I put it in the cabinet about 15 years ago, it only got a quick wipe down. Complete tear down, cleaning and oiling and its back up to the job at hand.
Cleaned up and ready to go.
While I had it in my hand I thought I'd run the action a few times and compare it to the R4. That Remington is slick and well used, its an old one. Bought by my uncle when they first came out in the 1960's and has who knows how many shells through it but it runs fine and it even ran fine when I put it away years ago. Compared to this R4 though, its half as slick and smooth and the recoil spring is considerably stiffer. I'll bet why thats why it cycles slower and I'll also bet thats why its still running all these years later.
Gun show tomorrow. Cases of trap loads are on the list along with, if I can find one, of these. I should have kept my Trap/Skeet set...
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