Tabac 2024 Reformulation

[vtmax]

agree 100%
no version of tabac touches the artisan soaps you see today. the vegan tabac is just as good as the tallow tabac. there is no difference between the two except one has tallow and one doesn't. Most people on here who have used the 2021 reformulation have said they liked it.

It‘s all opinion, experience and preference. I specifically tested both against each other, tallow Tabac vs vegan. I gave it a fair shot and prefer the tallow original over the vegan. There is a difference between the two. The vegan is a different soap, close but not the same product in scent or performance.

Mauer and Wirtz (and Czech and Speake for that matter) did not want to change their formula. The Kappus Group and Dreiring -Werk filed for bankruptcy and tallow Tabac was no more.

I have used all the top home cooked (artisan) soaps on offer and recently released. Tallow Tabac equally stands with them in performance and surpasses many in my experience.

 

[jonwilson]

It‘s all opinion, experience and preference. I specifically tested both against each other, tallow Tabac vs vegan. I gave it a fair shot and prefer the tallow original over the vegan. There is a difference between the two. The vegan is a different soap, close but not the same product in scent or performance.

Mauer and Wirtz (and Czech and Speake for that matter) did not want to change their formula. The Kappus Group and Dreiring -Werk filed for bankruptcy and tallow Tabac was no more.

I have used all the top home cooked (artisan) soaps on offer and recently released. Tallow Tabac equally stands with them in performance and surpasses many in my experience.

tabac is a good soap no doubt. Artisan soaps are superior in just about every single way because they have better ingredients in the soap. They offer more moisturizing ingredients. A tabac will never be in the same league as a barrister & mann or a mike's. tabac will most likely last longer than your typical 4-5 oz artisan tallow shave soap, but that is about it. A mass produced soap like tabac will provide a good shave for many wet shavers, but I suspect most wet shavers on here will tell you that they think artisan soaps are superior to soaps like tabac.

 

[brucered]

tabac is a good soap no doubt. Artisan soaps are superior in just about every single way because they have better ingredients in the soap. They offer more moisturizing ingredients. A tabac will never be in the same league as a barrister & mann or a mike's. tabac will most likely last longer than your typical 4-5 oz artisan tallow shave soap, but that is about it. A mass produced soap like tabac will provide a good shave for many wet shavers, but I suspect most wet shavers on here will tell you that they think artisan soaps are superior to soaps like tabac.

Not me.

I gave up on Mom and Pop "artisan" soaps years ago. There is no comparison in my eyes.

Granted I haven't tried any in a while. I can't get over the strong scents, stupid descriptions, cost to ship (& product) and the biggest thing for me....formula changes. I know the last reason doesn't take sense in a reformation thread, but I stocked.uo on the Tallow.

 

[jonwilson]

It's unfortunate, but I can tell the difference quite clearly. The tallow version just provides a lot more cushion than the non-tallow reformulation. I get no irritation whatsoever when I use the tallow version and I can't say the same for the reformulation. The shave just isn't as good, at least on my face. I guess it would be the 2021 reformulation that I've tried.

I'm happy I stocked up a bit on the tallow soap when it was available because it's one of my favorites. I think there are certainly soaps that are as good as tallow Tabac that are available, but they all cost substantially more. I was buying tallow Tabac from European suppliers for about 6-7 bucks per refill puck, shipped to the USA. I did buy two pucks of the reformulation, and I've used up one so far. I doubt I'll be buying any more.

I have used both soaps and I cannot tell a difference. The only main difference is one has tallow and the other don't. They both lather about the same. They both have the same scent just about, at least to my nose. If you're a tabac lover, you should like the vegan tabac. It doesn't have tallow, true, but it's still a pretty good soap to shave with. I think tabac did a good job reformulating their shave soap. I still would have liked if they kept making their tallow soap. If it ain't broke, don't fix it right? I'm not mad at all that tallow tabac is gone, but the newer tabac as I said it just as good. If I want tallow soaps, I will reach for my stirling, mike's, barrister & mann, and ariana & evans.

 

[86-foxtrot]

Mauer and Wirtz (and Czech and Speake for that matter) did not want to change their formula. The Kappus Group and Dreiring -Werk filed for bankruptcy and tallow Tabac was no more.

Thanks for the explanation. I was under the assumption that Tallow was being outlawed in Europe for health reasons.

 

[nemo]

Artisan soaps are superior in just about every single way because they have better ingredients in the soap.

Can't agree with that. First, it's a sweeping generalization and I simply can't lump all artisan soaps together as better than Tabac -- no sir. When I went through a puck of Barrister & Mann I couldn't wait to finish it, I've still got a bit left I should toss since it turned lumpy in less than a year. It couldn't hold a candle to tallow Tabac (or 2021) in my opinion.

 

[tube_guy]

I have used both soaps and I cannot tell a difference. The only main difference is one has tallow and the other don't. They both lather about the same. They both have the same scent just about, at least to my nose. If you're a tabac lover, you should like the vegan tabac. It doesn't have tallow, true, but it's still a pretty good soap to shave with. I think tabac did a good job reformulating their shave soap. I still would have liked if they kept making their tallow soap. If it ain't broke, don't fix it right? I'm not mad at all that tallow tabac is gone, but the newer tabac as I said it just as good. If I want tallow soaps, I will reach for my stirling, mike's, barrister & mann, and ariana & evans.

I'm not mad Tabac reformulated their soap. Things rarely remain the same and that's just the way things go most of the time. It's just shaving soap, after all, and there are others out there that I also like. For me, Tabac was all about the cushion and protection the lather provided, and that's exactly where I found the reformulation lacking. I thought tallow Tabac was a really great soap for the price. I won't be buying more of the reformulation, so I guess there's more of the reformulated soap available for the people that are happy with it.

 

[Captain Howdy]

agree 100%
no version of tabac touches the artisan soaps you see today. the vegan tabac is just as good as the tallow tabac. there is no difference between the two except one has tallow and one doesn't. Most people on here who have used the 2021 reformulation have said they liked it.

While I agree that no version of Tabac competes with the large majority of modern artisans, I found a very noticeable difference between tallow and veg. It's not the same soap only without tallow. It's an entirely different formula and therefore a new product entirely.

And reading this thread alone shows that plenty of people don't like it...or at least like it less.

 

[Filudo]

I have been reading so many bad things about the process of obtaining palm oil......: "Palm oil has been and continues to be a major driver of deforestation of some of the world's most biodiverse forests, destroying the habitat of already endangered species like the Orangutan, pygmy elephant and Sumatran rhino. A palm oil mill generates 2.5 metric tons of effluent for every metric ton of palm oil it produces. Direct release of this effluent can cause freshwater pollution, which affects downstream biodiversity and people." from Google

 

[mladenius]

Some people here simply idolize Tabac too much - It's a fine soap but not extraordinary in any way.
And new formula is not the same product as the old one - simply, ingredient list is not the same.
There are tons of soaps in the same category which are as good or better than Tabac.
Comparison to artisans is ridiculous because it's mass a produced industrial shaving soap. Most established artisans are much better products in any way (but also more expensive).
Tabac is more equal to eg Proraso or Monsavon (which is cheaper but much better soap than Tabac from my experience)

 

[vtmax]

Don’t forget the Triple Milled fans.

A lot of long time forum members grew up on tallow Tabac. Homemade soaps with all their coconut milk and cupuacu butters can be great. I enjoy them myself.

There is a following for great industrial triple milled tallow soaps like Tabac and DR Harris. In fact people are stocking up on the DR Harris tallow if and when they also go vegan.

Revered and idolized yes, but they have their reasons.

 

[brucered]

Don’t forget the Triple Milled fans.

A lot of long time forum members grew up on tallow Tabac. Homemade soaps with all their coconut milk and cupuacu butters can be great. I enjoy them myself.

There is a following for great industrial triple milled tallow soaps like Tabac and DR Harris. In fact people are stocking up on the DR Harris tallow if and when they also go vegan.

Revered and idolized yes, but they have their reasons.

I dismissed Tabac for 12+ years of wet shaving, based on scent bashing.

During that time I used plenty of artisan soaps, when there were probably less than a dozen being discussed (you were around for it too). There was plenty of soap shenanigans happening during that time from ingredients to labelling to stealing recipes to weekly formula changes and schilling. Whoever could make soap, was self declaring themselves an "artisan". It turned me completely off of "artisan" soaps.

When I switched to harder soaps like PdP, Provence Sante, Harris, MdC and Tabac, I was sold.

I finally gave Tallow Tabac a fair chance and 3017'd a puck in 2023. I put it on the same tier/level as Tallow Haslinger as the top soap I have used in 15 years. I didn't stock up on Haslinger when the reformation was happening but didn't make that mistake with Tabac.

 

[Tha Baron]

If anyone looking for tallow Tabac, Pasteur appears to have some tallow sticks in stock. If you look at the descriptions, it shows “new formulation” for the stick refill and puck. I also bought a few across 2 separate orders, sure enough they were all the tallow version.

Act quick, only a dozen or so left in stock…. Of course, YMMV

 

[cymric]

tabac is a good soap no doubt. Artisan soaps are superior in just about every single way because they have better ingredients in the soap. They offer more moisturizing ingredients. A tabac will never be in the same league as a barrister & mann or a mike's. tabac will most likely last longer than your typical 4-5 oz artisan tallow shave soap, but that is about it. A mass produced soap like tabac will provide a good shave for many wet shavers, but I suspect most wet shavers on here will tell you that they think artisan soaps are superior to soaps like tabac.

'Better ingredients'? As a chemical engineer, I smirked. It's still all triglycerides with various carbon chain lengths, and the saponification with lye destroys any additional proteines which might have survived the oil processing and refining.

That's why these artisan soap makers earn a living: providing the illusion that a soap containing pure coconut, and shea, and argan, and what-not, somehow is composed of 'better ingredients'.

I find it highly amusing that the product to own a decade ago, Acqua di Parma cream, was actually 'constructed' using specific fatty acids instead of a combination of natural oils. But people gladly paid the massive premium price and attributed magical powers to its formulation. Apparently these days the magic resides with artisan soap makers. (By the way, there are still some remains of that construction in the current formulation of AdP as far as I can tell; and lo and behold, it now also contains, wait for it: 'Elaeis guineensis oil'. That's the Latin name for the oil palm. Really bold marketing, that.)

----

For fun, I looked up the formula for Barrister & Mann's 'Fougère', which sells for twice the amount a puck of Tabac now goes for. I got to:

Aqua (Water), Potassium Stearate, Glycerin, Potassium Tallowate, Parfum (Fragrance Oil), Sodium Stearate, Garcinia indica Seed Butter (Potassium Kokum Butterate), Polyacrylamidomethylpropane Sulfonic Acid, Cocos nucifera Fruit Juice (Coconut Milk), Sodium Tallowate, Potassium Ricinoleate, Sodium Lactate, Butyrospermum parkii (Shea) Butter, Trisodium Ethylenediamine Disuccinate, Xanthan Gum, Theobroma grandiflorum (Cupuaçu) Seed Butter, Sodium Cocoa (Kokum) Butterate, Potassium Cocoate, Hydroxethylcellulose, Sodium Ricinolate, Saccharide Isomerate, Caprae Lac (Goat Milk) Powder, Persea gratissima (Avocado) Oil, Sodium Cocoate, Althaea officinalis (Marshmallow) Root Extract, Ulmus rubra (Slippery Elm) Extract, Alpha-Isomethyl Ionone, Benzyl Benzoate, Limonene

So, which fats and oils does it contain: stearic acid, tallow, kokum butter, coconut oil, castor oil, shea butter, cocoa butter, avocado oil, and cupuaçu butter. Holy moly, it's truly everything but the kitchen sink. And the kicker is that all of these butter and oils save for the castor and coconut oil rely on the same five or fix basic fatty acids! There's no way to quality control this mess: someone just went over the top with the idea that if any single of these oils or butters are supposed to be good for the skin, then the combination must logically be off the scale. Plus there's a magic ingredient in there for everybody, so win-win.

But there's more to this formula: it contains Rheocare RH-1180 = polyacrylamidomethylpropane sulfonic acid, which 'gives a lubricious feel to the skin'. There is also xanthan gum, hydroxymethylcellulose, and goat milk powder (!?!): all thickening agents; and an extra moisturiser: saccharide isomerate (a fantasy name if I ever heard one). The rest is chelating agent, preservative, or perfume.

More ingredients, certainly. More marketing-friendly ingredients, hell yes. Better ingredients, though? I think that's debatable.

---

In any case, the 2024-reformulation of Tabac is... curious. First shave with it went a little awry, but I loaded way too much product into the brush for some reason. Gonna have to play with it for a while.

 

[pjgh]

So, which fats and oils does it contain: stearic acid, tallow, kokum butter, coconut oil, castor oil, shea butter, cocoa butter, avocado oil, and cupuaçu butter. Holy moly, it's truly everything but the kitchen sink. And the kicker is that all of these butter and oils save for the castor and coconut oil rely on the same five or fix basic fatty acids! There's no way to quality control this mess: someone just went over the top with the idea that if any single of these oils or butters are supposed to be good for the skin, then the combination must logically be off the scale. Plus there's a magic ingredient in there for everybody, so win-win.

Amen!

Absolutely not singling out this specific soap (but I do understand you did that for the purpose of illustration) I just don't see what all that stuff brings to the party other than the fact that the word can be pasted onto the front of the pot ... and that's, I think, your last sentence.

... and the rise in the number of "Urgh! What's wrong with my soap?" threads showing balls of fat forming after mere matter of months makes me think there's something fundamentally wrong with this approach. I've opened shaving soaps from the 1930s, 1940s, 1950s and beyond to find them not only eminently usable but actually quite excellent.

But yes, thank you very kindly for your professional insight. I like actual facts.

Back to the reformulation ...

 

[Obetron Rex]

I wouldn't buy the 2021 reformulation and won't buy the 2024 either. I have plenty of good old tallow Tabac vacuum sealed to last me for years if I just used it, but I use other soaps as well. I don't/won't buy any non-tallow soap ever but that's just my preference.

 

[mladenius]

'Better ingredients'? As a chemical engineer, I smirked. It's still all triglycerides with various carbon chain lengths, and the saponification with lye destroys any additional proteines which might have survived the oil processing and refining.

That's why these artisan soap makers earn a living: providing the illusion that a soap containing pure coconut, and shea, and argan, and what-not, somehow is composed of 'better ingredients'.

I find it highly amusing that the product to own a decade ago, Acqua di Parma cream, was actually 'constructed' using specific fatty acids instead of a combination of natural oils. But people gladly paid the massive premium price and attributed magical powers to its formulation. Apparently these days the magic resides with artisan soap makers. (By the way, there are still some remains of that construction in the current formulation of AdP as far as I can tell; and lo and behold, it now also contains, wait for it: 'Elaeis guineensis oil'. That's the Latin name for the oil palm. Really bold marketing, that.)

----

For fun, I looked up the formula for Barrister & Mann's 'Fougère', which sells for twice the amount a puck of Tabac now goes for. I got to:

So, which fats and oils does it contain: stearic acid, tallow, kokum butter, coconut oil, castor oil, shea butter, cocoa butter, avocado oil, and cupuaçu butter. Holy moly, it's truly everything but the kitchen sink. And the kicker is that all of these butter and oils save for the castor and coconut oil rely on the same five or fix basic fatty acids! There's no way to quality control this mess: someone just went over the top with the idea that if any single of these oils or butters are supposed to be good for the skin, then the combination must logically be off the scale. Plus there's a magic ingredient in there for everybody, so win-win.

But there's more to this formula: it contains Rheocare RH-1180 = polyacrylamidomethylpropane sulfonic acid, which 'gives a lubricious feel to the skin'. There is also xanthan gum, hydroxymethylcellulose, and goat milk powder (!?!): all thickening agents; and an extra moisturiser: saccharide isomerate (a fantasy name if I ever heard one). The rest is chelating agent, preservative, or perfume.

More ingredients, certainly. More marketing-friendly ingredients, hell yes. Better ingredients, though? I think that's debatable.

---

In any case, the 2024-reformulation of Tabac is... curious. First shave with it went a little awry, but I loaded way too much product into the brush for some reason. Gonna have to play with it for a while.

Not all artisan soaps contains bunch of ingredients, need or uneeded ones. Some of them have quite minimalistic ingredients lists.
Many of them also have unscented variants if you don't like too much of a perfume.

For example Wickham soaps

Potassium Stearate, Aqua, Sodium Cocoate, Sodium Cocoa Butterate, Sodium Palmate, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Oil, Sodium Avocadate, Parfum, White Kaolin, Allantoin, Glycerine.

If we are going to comapre prices of traditional soaps with artisans you should check Klar shaving soap from Germany. This is not artisan soap yet they charge 20 euros(!) for the soap which is basically just a combination of palm oil products in combination with synthetic detergents. Just very similar to regular hand bar soaps from supermarket - ofc there is difference because shaving soap should have more thicker and stable lather.
Just outrageous, and only because it's Klar with tradition from 1840. I seriously doubt that this soap is in any way better than eg Vergulde Hand (which have pretty much the same composition but for 4x less money ) or Tabac or Speick for that matter.

 

[brucered]

@mladenius

True, many commercial soaps are $$$ for name sake.

On the flipside, many "artisan" soaps are not artisan quality or made by true artisans.

Just because you make something by hand, in small batch, doesn't make you or your product artisan. I don't know of any other product or craft, that it is more overused in, than Soaps.

 

[Galaktus]

I have used tallow and the first veg Tabac, and to me, other than the slightly different scent, both are perfectly acceptable to me. Haven't tried the new-new veg formula, and to be honest, I don't have a burning desire to try it. First, I am in the yearly restraint, and second, I have way too much soap.

 

[zifnab]

Not me.

I gave up on Mom and Pop "artisan" soaps years ago. There is no comparison in my eyes.

Granted I haven't tried any in a while. I can't get over the strong scents, stupid descriptions, cost to ship (& product) and the biggest thing for me....formula changes. I know the last reason doesn't take sense in a reformation thread, but I stocked.uo on the Tallow.

Agreed, I haven't been into artisan soaps that long but I avoid any soap maker that has constant changes like A&E, B&M, it's bit of a joke to me. Meanwhile soaps largely unchanged continue to be strong favorites. Frankly my favorite soap right now is Canada Unscented and it's 6 ingredients I think. MdC and then Catie's Bubbles which is also somewhat minimal.