Mini Vivaldi II & a Vario
You've been given $2,500.
- Thread starter jzuzphreek
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- #22
As much good as I hear about the Mini Vivaldi (I've never heard a single bad thing about it)... I just can't get past the looks of it. It's a shame too, I think it's the one machine my wife would be able/willing to learn.
There's just really something I like about the lever operated E61 machines.
i know right. the rocket is likely my next espresso machine. as for the grinder i wanted something stepless in the pricerange. or perhaps a compakt? http://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/compak-k3-touch-doserless-grinder the compak will also dose your coffee if you set it up that way. also the gals at SCG have a youtube channel and they showcase and review their products on there.
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- #24
Oh gosh, I know. I spend wayyy too much time on youtube looking at their reviews than I should. That time would probably be better spent browsing B&B.
Goodness a combination that meets the budget even in Canada from iDrinkCoffee.com
I ordered my set up from idrinkcoffee.com. I ordered over the phone and they price matched and delivered in person to my door. Very competitive prices on a Rancilio Epoca and Mazzer Mini grinder.
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- #29
5 minutes walk from the office
Awesome! All the good places here are too far away from me to frequent with any regularity.
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- #30
What's your setup Lather?
I have a Rancilio Epoca tank model and a Mazzer Mini. It is a great set up but closer to $3000.
I have a friend who has a Rocket (not sure which model, maybe Cellini) and a Mazzer Mini. He says it is a great combo and closer to $2500.
I have a giotto premium which looks just like that. Mine must be the earlier model before a company buyout or merger. I only gave 1500 for mine. Can't remember the details though - that was in 2007.
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- #33
If I were to get a Rocket, it would be a Giotto Evoluzione (V2). And mostly for its aesthetics. I've not heard much about the Epoca. I'll have to look into that.
the epoca is a comercial machine. my local coffee shop has one a twin head. sadly the barista cant take advantage of the machine.
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- #35
That's the most disappointing thing about almost EVERY cafe!
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- #36
Here's a machine that I haven't really ever considered. It's certainly very capable, just not as pretty as most. Good for a few drinks per hour maybe, which is all you need in a home setting.
Nuova Simonelli Oscar (Tank Version) - Seattle Coffee Gear $1,050.00
Compak K10 Professional Barista Grinder - Chris Coffee - $1,465.75
Total $2,515.75
Only $15 dollars over budget. By saving money on a less attractive, non-E61 machine, I'm able to splurge on the grinder. With only a few (cheap) modifications to the group and adding a vacuum breaker, you end up with a machine as capable as any $1000 more.
Nuova Simonelli Oscar (Tank Version) - Seattle Coffee Gear $1,050.00
Compak K10 Professional Barista Grinder - Chris Coffee - $1,465.75
Total $2,515.75
Only $15 dollars over budget. By saving money on a less attractive, non-E61 machine, I'm able to splurge on the grinder. With only a few (cheap) modifications to the group and adding a vacuum breaker, you end up with a machine as capable as any $1000 more.
Post doesn't meet all the requests above but I'd select the grinder first (as it matters more). I'd probably select the Super Jolly and then pair up whatever fits into the remaining budget.
If you have the chance, compare the two in person. Even just looking at them and picking them up will reveal vast differences. Disassembling them will give you an even greater appreciation of the differences. There's just no comparison. Even Magic Bullet versus the coffee geek "minimum" Preciso (probably ~$300) is no comparison.
Some grinders don't have the requisite adjustability needed to fine tune the grind and there's no equivalence for this in the brush world. Some grinders are poorly built. Some have slop in their burr carriers or can develop this issue over time, affecting grind quality. There are also features that may or may not be desirable to the buyer that can affect pricing. There are grinders with electronics for dosing/timing the grind which will add expense, for example.
If you're truly curious then (just like it is with wet shaving) get some experience and see what you prefer. Hit up a good coffee shop and pay attention to the grinders that they use. Pull some espresso with your Magic Bullet and compare. Or see if you can meet up with local coffee geeks in your area and compare espresso made with the exact same beans and machine yet with varying grinders. Grinders are commonly an afterthought to those shopping for espresso equipment but they are a very important link in the chain.
The Super Jolly isn't "so amazing". It's not even near the top of the grinder price curve. It's a low-mid range commercial grinder. It performs well. Its grind quality is frequently compared to the Vario which retails for quite a bit less. However, Mazzers are built like tanks and will last forever. The Vario, while it is surely reliable, isn't built the same at all. Mazzers are, for the most part, designed for commercial environments. The Vario is designed for the home. As with most things, each option has its pros and cons and one size does not fit all. I love the build quality of my Mazzer but I don't have counter space and cabinet height restrictions that some do that might drive them toward something like the Vario.
The Super Jolly produces excellent grinds for espresso. The Magic Bullet isn't even worth considering IMO. Spinning blades produce very inconsistent grinds which result in very poor extraction. A quality espresso grinder uses burrs to produce much more consistent grinds than a whirly blade. You cannot properly control the grind in the latter considering that the grind time varies the grind. On the other hand, no matter how long I run my burr grinder the grind is consistent. There are a number of other reasons why better grinders tend to be pricier. Build quality, motor, consistency, fine adjustability, etc just some of the reasons. However, ultimately, it's the person's satisfaction with what's in the cup that matters. The Super Jolly will last forever -- especially in a home environment. The Magic Bullet is a cheap, disposable small electric appliance. My own Super Jolly is a retired Starbuck decaf grinder. While it saw quite a bit of use in its former life, I had it refurbished so it now not only produces excellent grinds but also looks virtually new and I doubt I will ever upgrade from it.
If you have the chance, compare the two in person. Even just looking at them and picking them up will reveal vast differences. Disassembling them will give you an even greater appreciation of the differences. There's just no comparison. Even Magic Bullet versus the coffee geek "minimum" Preciso (probably ~$300) is no comparison.
The pricing range is quite different from brushes and grinders are a completely different animal considering all their moving parts. Decent low end espresso grinders probably start in the ~$300 range. The range easily goes up to ~$3,000 (at a quick glance). There is similarity in that people's taste/preferences vary and where their preferences take them on the price curve also varies. It is also similar -- as you state (and as it is with everything) -- that the cost/benefit curve gets steeper. The Super Jolly seems to be about where my palate hits its limit. Those with more refined palates may prefer a pricier conical. Others may not care at all and may be fine with a whirly blade grinder or a more convenient brewing method that forgoes the need for a grinder altogether.
Some grinders don't have the requisite adjustability needed to fine tune the grind and there's no equivalence for this in the brush world. Some grinders are poorly built. Some have slop in their burr carriers or can develop this issue over time, affecting grind quality. There are also features that may or may not be desirable to the buyer that can affect pricing. There are grinders with electronics for dosing/timing the grind which will add expense, for example.
If you're truly curious then (just like it is with wet shaving) get some experience and see what you prefer. Hit up a good coffee shop and pay attention to the grinders that they use. Pull some espresso with your Magic Bullet and compare. Or see if you can meet up with local coffee geeks in your area and compare espresso made with the exact same beans and machine yet with varying grinders. Grinders are commonly an afterthought to those shopping for espresso equipment but they are a very important link in the chain.
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- #38
Excellent post. And I agree with pretty much everything you've said. What other machines would you compare to the Super Jolly? At $679 (From Chris Coffee), it sure seem like a steal. And even the "pro-ams" still consider it one of the best grinders for the home outside the titan class.
What espresso machine do you currently have it paired with?
