you that regular use pasted leather for stropping

[*stefan*]

Have you noticed any difference in result for
hanging leather strop vs. hand hold strop?

In other words could the amount of flex in the strop affect the result?
Of course the stropping load, torking and technique affect but the
flex in the strop probably also affects how the leather contacts the edge.

 

[rbscebu]

I used a pasted hanging leather strop initially when I started SR shaving. Yes, it sharpened a dulling edge but it also developed some convexity in the bevel. This meant more work when having to refresh the edge on a whetstone. It also "ruined" the leather strop as it could then never be used again as a clean leather strop.

Once I moved on to diamond pasted balsa stops (hand held), a pasted hanging leather strop became supercilious to my needs. That pasted leather strop got trashed.

I now never have to hone my SR's once the initial bevel is set and refined up to a good shave-ready condition. I then only need use my diamond pasted balsa stops.

 

[Legion]

I have pasted balsa, pasted leather bench, and pasted leather hanging strops. I don’t have to worry about ruining the leather strops with pastes, since I made them, and they were intended to be that way.

They all work fine. For space and convenience I now keep one hanging one inside for razors, and the bench strops live in my workshop for tools and knives.

 

[*stefan*]

I used a pasted hanging leather strop initially when I started SR shaving. Yes, it sharpened a dulling edge but it also developed some convexity in the bevel. This meant more work when having to refresh the edge on a whetstone. It also "ruined" the leather strop as it could then never be used again as a clean leather strop.

Once I moved on to diamond pasted balsa stops (hand held), a pasted hanging leather strop became supercilious to my needs. That pasted leather strop got trashed.

I now never have to hone my SR's once the initial bevel is set and refined up to a good shave-ready condition. I then only need use my diamond pasted balsa stops.

To clarify I had in mind those that regularly finish a progression with pasted leather.
Not only those that use pasted leather regularly for touch up between honing.

Balsa strop with 0.1 micron diamond strop is on my want to do/test list.

 

[LJS]

Have you noticed any difference in result for
hanging leather strop vs. hand hold strop?

Your question may not be totally clear. By “hand hold” strop, a phrase not normally used, do you mean a paddle strop or maybe a loom strop? They are different and both “hand hold”.

I think I understand your question though. If you want to use a loaded strop for a razor, my personal suggestion would be a paddle strop. You delineated between using at end of progression vs touch up and I don’t think that has much relevance really because the reason for paddle is the same. The leather is already a compressible substrate that gives to the steel. Any extra give in the strop, like a hanging strop with natural slack, only encourages rounding the edge.

I used CrOx as finisher and touch up for a long time. All the tales of horror I read here are a little over exaggerated in my opinion or at least from my experience. It appears to be somewhat regional opinion as well as folks in other counties actually think highly of similar products. Yes, loaded strops can round the edge - but the operator has much controls over that in technique and equipment. Use a paddle stop and keep the blade flat is the obvious way to not roll an edge and this is No different than diamond (an abrasive paste) on balsa (a paddle strop without handle). Put diamond paste on a slack leather strop and it will do all the same things, so it has less to do with the abrasive as the substrate it is on.

 

[*stefan*]

Your question may not be totally clear. By “hand hold” strop, a phrase not normally used, do you mean a paddle strop or maybe a loom strop? They are different and both “hand hold”.

I think I understand your question though. If you want to use a loaded strop for a razor, my personal suggestion would be a paddle strop. You delineated between using at end of progression vs touch up and I don’t think that has much relevance really because the reason for paddle is the same. The leather is already a compressible substrate that gives to the steel. Any extra give in the strop, like a hanging strop with natural slack, only encourages rounding the edge.

I used CrOx as finisher and touch up for a long time. All the tales of horror I read here are a little over exaggerated in my opinion or at least from my experience. It appears to be somewhat regional opinion as well as folks in other counties actually think highly of similar products. Yes, loaded strops can round the edge - but the operator has much controls over that in technique and equipment. Use a paddle stop and keep the blade flat is the obvious way to not roll an edge and this is No different than diamond (an abrasive paste) on balsa (a paddle strop without handle). Put diamond paste on a slack leather strop and it will do all the same things, so it has less to do with the abrasive as the substrate it is on.

Just make sure I got your answer right.
Do you get similar results with pasted leather either with hanging, paddle and loom strop if you use the right technique?

I was thinking loom strop when I wrote hand hold strop but paddle is as interesting.

 

[LJS]

Just make sure I got your answer right.
Do you get similar results with pasted leather either with hanging, paddle and loom strop if you use the right technique?

No, that is the opposite of what I was saying. I was recommending a paddle strop over loom or hanging or anything else that gives or moves.

A paddle strop is just a flat board. It doesn’t move. Also essentially the same in remaining highly flat while stropping is the balsa strops many talk about on this site. Key point, stays completely flat when being used. That is more important than the abrasive used (CrOx, FeOx, diamond, CBN, etc). When using a strop loaded with abrasive, I am recommending you use something that remains flat like a paddle strop.

Normal hanging strops and loom strops have more give since they are not supported by a solid board. This give and flex of the strops while using with an abrasive makes rolling the edge or rounding the edge more probable. My recommendation if you want to use a strop loaded with abrasive would Not be one like typical hanging strops or loom strop.

Hope this is more clear to you. Good luck

 

[*stefan*]

No, that is the opposite of what I was saying. I was recommending a paddle strop over loom or hanging or anything else that gives or moves.

A paddle strop is just a flat board. It doesn’t move. Also essentially the same in remaining highly flat while stropping is the balsa strops many talk about on this site. Key point, stays completely flat when being used. That is more important than the abrasive used (CrOx, FeOx, diamond, CBN, etc). When using a strop loaded with abrasive, I am recommending you use something that remains flat like a paddle strop.

Normal hanging strops and loom strops have more give since they are not supported by a solid board. This give and flex of the strops while using with an abrasive makes rolling the edge or rounding the edge more probable. My recommendation if you want to use a strop loaded with abrasive would Not be one like typical hanging strops or loom strop.

Hope this is more clear to you. Good luck

Thank you for the clarification.
"Put diamond paste on a slack leather strop and it will do all the same things" -this text confused me and still does I guess.

It was because of the loom strop in another post that has the leather backed with canvas and a leaf spring that made me create this post. Perhaps this strop was considered to be used with paste when designed.
Loom strop with leaf spring

I have before used diamond pasted hanging leather strop, first with 1 micron, then 0.5 micron and last 0.2 micron.

The result with 0.2 micron was probably a little bit better than 0.5 micron and I would end with some very short laps with high stropping load and torquing. Perhaps the result would have been even better using a loom strop.

Perhaps the backed loom strop will serve as a pasted strop for me.

 

[rbscebu]

...

Perhaps the backed loom strop will serve as a pasted strop for me.

Not recommended. All loom strops (backed or not) will have enough "give" in them to partially round the bevel. This effectively increased the bevel angle at the edge. If you don't want this and are using an abrasive paste, it should be done on a surface that effectively has no "give" in it.

Anyway, it is up to you to do as you please.

 

[LJS]

"Put diamond paste on a slack leather strop and it will do all the same things" -this text confused me and still does I guess.

Sorry if that was confusing. What I mean by this is that regardless of the abrasive, including diamond, on a slack strop you are likely to round your edge. By slack strop I mean normal hanging strop or loom or anything not rigid.

 

[*stefan*]

@LJS and @rbscebu
What is a rounded edge for you?
Would a rounded edge grab and slice whiskers?
Performing in HHT, tre topping and shaving?

 

[rbscebu]

@LJS and @rbscebu
What is a rounded edge for you?
Would a rounded edge grab and slice whiskers?
Performing in HHT, tre topping and shaving?

Not totally rounding the edge, more like putting a convex surface on the bevel. This effectively increases the bevel angle that decrease the edge's keenness. Less keenness means that it will not tree-top as well and will pull at bit more on your whiskers when shaving.

You of course may be already use to a less keen edge and may not notice any difference. Just do what you are comfortable with. That is the main thing with shaving.

 

[*stefan*]

Not totally rounding the edge, more like putting a convex surface on the bevel. This effectively increases the bevel angle that decrease the edge's keenness. Less keenness means that it will not tree-top as well and will pull at bit more on your whiskers when shaving.

You of course may be already use to a less keen edge and may not notice any difference. Just do what you are comfortable with. That is the main thing with shaving.

When I wrote the post I was thinking of hanging leather strop and leather loom strop but wrote hand hold strop. And you answered the question as I wrote it, thank you.

With a rounded edge you mean not totally rounded and with that you mean convex edge. Ok.

You assume you got a convex edge when you used a pasted hanging leather as it took more time to bring the edge back, when you did
touch up on a hone or LF.

But how do you know you got a convex edge and not a burr that broke off during some shaves?

 

[rbscebu]

....
But how do you know you got a convex edge and not a burr that broke off during some shaves?

It is not a convex edge. It is a convex bevel. Trust me, I'm an engineer.

 

[*stefan*]

I had to refresh what I once read at science of sharp, about stropping results.
You were right, the leather strop put on a micro convexity at the last 3 micron. But that must be very fast to hone away at touch up.

Depending on type leather (used with paste) a burr can also be created.
When it breaks it will leave a not refined edge. That will take some time to refine when honing.

The pasted strop part 2
Stropping progression of 100 laps on a chromium oxide loaded hanging horsehide strop.......
This did change the angle from 16.5 to 18.4 degrees at the last 3 micron.

The pasted strop part 3
stropped on the hanging latigo loaded with 0.25 micron mono-diamond. This pasted strop produces significant micro-convexity and as side-effect also produces a foil-edge burr.
bevel angle from 16.5 to more than 22 degrees at the last 3 micron.

The pasted strop part 4
stropped on a hanging denim strop loaded with Thiers Issard Pate a Rasoir, a coarse (10 micron) aluminum oxide abrasive.
bevel angle from 16.5 to 24.5 at last 3 micron