You Can't Make This Stuff Up

[SparkyLB]

I recently purchased an LED-illuminated loupe that @Doc226 linked to in a thread. I am amazed at the level of detail afforded by both abundance of light and 60X.

Getting ready for my shave tonight I stropped 60 strokes. Recently I've become aware that I've been applying too much pressure, and I stropped slowly and gently this evening.

With this loupe's field of view being about 12mm (I think) for this magnification, there's a small learning curve of how to safely hold both loupe and blade so I can safely slide the blade slowly and look at every mm of edge. The detail is amazing. So after I stropped I walked the SR to my area where I hone (my loupe is there) to give the edge a visual inspection. I grasped it the usual way and slowly brought the edge into focus, getting ready for a travel down the blade.

I was aghast to see an edge that resembled a hacksaw! For the life of me I couldn't fathom what I did wrong to be the recipient of such a terrible looking edge. I either chipped the entire blade, or made it so friable it was falling apart--in the few seconds many possible scenarios raced through my mind.

Then I realized as I took my head away from the loupe and inspected the grip I had--that I was looking at the jimps!!

 

[Vigilante Shaver]

That toothy edge will grab and cut the hair nicely. A super smooth non toothy edge is good for push cutting but not good for cutting hair. The highly polished edge will often just push the hair down, you want the edge to grab the hair and cut it.

A fine tooth edge is a wonderful thing.

 

[SparkyLB]

@Vigilante Shaver I'm going to respectfully disagree. I'm familiar with that toothy edge, a term you hear quite a bit in knife sharpening. It is a fantastic cutter, no doubt. In my experience, that micro-fine serrated edge feels "mechanical" to me. YES it cuts, but with the slightest amount of tug. I believe that's attributable to micro scratches that remain. They might be in the micron range--but they're there.

I've had my best shaves to date with an edge honed on JNATs, working through the full progression to a very dull finish, free from any visible striations, and they cut IMO better than the edge to which you refer. When I've completed the progression, my edge looks like an inflatable toy with a matte finish, in desperate need of a paint job. It never passes the HHT--but it shaves like nobody's business.

This is probably a discussion for a different thread. You may have missed the point of my OP. I didn't have a toothy edge.

 

[Frank Shaves]

I recently purchased an LED-illuminated loupe that @Doc226 linked to in a thread. I am amazed at the level of detail afforded by both abundance of light and 60X.

Getting ready for my shave tonight I stropped 60 strokes. Recently I've become aware that I've been applying too much pressure, and I stropped slowly and gently this evening.

With this loupe's field of view being about 12mm (I think) for this magnification, there's a small learning curve of how to safely hold both loupe and blade so I can safely slide the blade slowly and look at every mm of edge. The detail is amazing. So after I stropped I walked the SR to my area where I hone (my loupe is there) to give the edge a visual inspection. I grasped it the usual way and slowly brought the edge into focus, getting ready for a travel down the blade.

I was aghast to see an edge that resembled a hacksaw! For the life of me I couldn't fathom what I did wrong to be the recipient of such a terrible looking edge. I either chipped the entire blade, or made it so friable it was falling apart--in the few seconds many possible scenarios raced through my mind.

Then I realized as I took my head away from the loupe and inspected the grip I had--that I was looking at the jimps!!

Been there, done that. It took me a while to learn how to see through a loupe and keep track of what I was looking at.

Great story!

 

[Ice-Man]

Those jimps can be a pain and misleading, you are not the first (cough don't ask how I know) and you won't be the last.
but afterwards, you laugh and put it down to that Dooooooh moment and then carry on lol

 

[Vigilante Shaver]

Oh I see you were looking at your jimping. LOL

I often look at edges at 1200x-2000X so I am seeing something different then what you see at 60x.

 

[SparkyLB]

Those jimps can be a pain and misleading, you are not the first (cough don't ask how I know) and you won't be the last.
but afterwards, you laugh and put it down to that Dooooooh moment and then carry on lol

It was the same as that sinking feeling when you (insert nightmare of your choice) and wake up.

Oh I see you were looking at your jimping. LOL

I often look at edges at 1200x-2000X so I am seeing something different then what you see at 60x.

 

[Grayswandir]

@Vigilante Shaver I'm going to respectfully disagree. I'm familiar with that toothy edge, a term you hear quite a bit in knife sharpening. It is a fantastic cutter, no doubt. In my experience, that micro-fine serrated edge feels "mechanical" to me. YES it cuts, but with the slightest amount of tug. I believe that's attributable to micro scratches that remain. They might be in the micron range--but they're there.

I've had my best shaves to date with an edge honed on JNATs, working through the full progression to a very dull finish, free from any visible striations, and they cut IMO better than the edge to which you refer. When I've completed the progression, my edge looks like an inflatable toy with a matte finish, in desperate need of a paint job. It never passes the HHT--but it shaves like nobody's business.

This is probably a discussion for a different thread. You may have missed the point of my OP. I didn't have a toothy edge.

I'm kind of surprised it won't pass an HHT, though shaving is always the true measure of an edge. Have you tried stropping the razor on your hand? Hand stropping will often help a razor pass an HHT when leather alone will not. I guess it really doesn't matter as long as the shave is good.

 

[SparkyLB]

Yes, @Grayswandir since this new loupe at 60X allows me to see microfiber dander, I've gotten into the habit of hand stropping two or three times before blade inspection--not to further refine, but to get me a nice clean surface to inspect. I don't know if this counts, but if I perform a HHT and use some momentum with either the blade or the hair (neither of which I'm comfortable doing) it will cut the hair after a tug and a plink sound. I am quite new, and thought that a HHT was simply presenting the hair to the vertical edge slowly. This NEVER works.

However, as you said, the shave says it all. My shaves are getting better irrespective of HHT, so sometimes I don't even bother with an HHT and rely more on consistency between last time's feedback at various stages and the current feedback. If all's the same, the edge seems the same. Not superlative, but very comfortable.

My next endeavor (once I become routinely proficient at producing a very good blade) will be to reach out to my mentor, and to some of the very experienced honers/honemeisters on this forum to ask what I can do next to refine my blade even further. Maybe I'll develop a blade that will cut a HH. Again, as smooth as my shaves are getting, it seems, at least to me--that the HHT has no correlation with a great shave.

 

[Eastcoast30]

Getting a good HHT result takes a bit of practice in itself. I can usually get decent HHT after honing on Shapton 6k. I can get some (very little, but still there) HHT after 1k. I believe that as you progress with honing, HHT will be there. I'm not saying HHT makes for a great shave. Some edges that exhibit HHT after honing on 16k are too aggressive and not smooth at all. I then need to back down with a jnat or lower grit stone for a smoother shave and the HHT remains good.

 

[TexNat]

Oh I see you were looking at your jimping. LOL

I often look at edges at 1200x-2000X so I am seeing something different then what you see at 60x.

What are you using for that level of magnification?

 

[haggis]

I seem to gradually be getting closer to occasional, plausible HHT results from time to time (although some excellent shaves without HHT too). Sometimes a wee bit of hand stropping is what gets me over the hump.

I never get anything in the same universe as the silent separation of a fine hair falling gently onto a blade though. Maybe next year

 

[SparkyLB]

I’m encouraged that a few are getting really good shaves without that supposed prerequisite.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

I’m encouraged that a few are getting really good shaves without that supposed prerequisite.

Are you attempting the HHT straight off the stone or after stropping?

 

[Vigilante Shaver]

What are you using for that level of magnification?

I am a custom knifemaker and often look the edges as such high magnification to determine what stones and strops with compound are doing to the edge.

 

[TexNat]

I am a custom knifemaker and often look the edges as such high magnification to determine what stones and strops with compound are doing to the edge.

Not questioning why, that is easily understood. The higher upper range piqued my interest. Curious what specific tool, brand and model, you are using and would you recommend it? I have a cheap digital magnifier that goes to the upper 100’s. An upgraded model is on my wish list one of these days. So interested in ones others find work well.

 

[rbscebu]

I’m encouraged that a few are getting really good shaves without that supposed prerequisite.

I'm another who puts little/no faith in the HHT. I do practice tree-topping on my chest hairs but mainly for fun while working up to my finishers.

As most know, it's the shave test that really matters and it's the fool's pass that lets you know how good the edge really is.

For your education, hair will be cut easiest by a straight razor if the hair shaft is held root out. The reason for this is that the outer layer of the hair shaft consists of keratin scales. These scales are layered like the scales of a fish, feeling smooth from shaft root to shaft tip and course from tip to root. Thus the blade's edge catches onto these scales when the shaft is held root out.

 

[SparkyLB]

Are you attempting the HHT straight off the stone or after stropping?

Usually after stropping, but I've tried it both ways.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

Usually after stropping, but I've tried it both ways.

It's a finicky test, depends a lot on the source and condition of the hair, a little on technique as well. The shave test is the one that matters anyway, and HHT is meaningless outside that context.

 

[5whiskey]

I rarely pass a HHT, but can routinely pass a forearm treetop test with at least one hair on the blade (when I have forearm hairs remaining, I also test my knife sharpening by shaving arm hair so there often isn't much there). Concur that the shave test is all that really matters. Also concur that if I can't pop at least one arm hair on a treetop test the shave usually isn't as good as I believe it could be.