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Yaqi copied the Vector

As long as WE keep buying cheap copies of anything, they will keep making and selling them.
If the consumer doesn't buy , they won't make them.
Or if the original maker patents it and then takes legal action against the copy.........(unfair: you design and make the best thing and then have to spend money in lawyers to survive......).
Talk about fakes: they are making and labeling N95 masks and selling them to hospitals....these fakes can get the health workers sick....now these people making and selling should be in prison!!!!!
 
People who buy a $200+ USD razor like the Vector have no interest in cheap Chinese knockoffs
What about the person that has $100 saved up and is planning to save another $100 to buy it? What will they do when presented with a $25 option? Just a hint: the SE forum had a thread full of people who made the decision to buy cheap.
There's a reason patents expire and there are thresholds for reasonable differentiation. Pellet grills, as one example. First made by Traegger for 20 years exclusively. Once the patent expired, the market exploded to include cheap and super high end versions. Gave the originator a fair head start and imitators an opportunity to plan their approach.

As for the "well I can't afford one" argument, it doesn't pass the sniff test. I can't afford (or refuse to pay for) a lot of things, doesn't mean I'm entitled to derive pleasure from something that potentially harms the creators of the original creation. I'll say it again, if these knock offs were made ethically, the price would be much higher (and yes, I consider artificial currency manipulation, a human rights record Stalin would be envious of, and the environmental perspective of a comic book villain all very unethical things). But then again, if they were ethical, they wouldn't be making knock-offs.
 
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Well from what I understand
And Colonial before them, and Cobra before them, Etc., Etc.

It's not just that they made an AC razor, it's the complete copy of the entire head. Anyone can say whatever they want, but the flat screw through the blade is a definite innovation and unique. It was shady as $%!+ (Poop) to blatantly steal the idea.
 
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20 years of market protection
Really? You don't say? Please enlighten us as to what is fair? Or is your perspective that inventors/creators have no rights?
But you can kiss most medical and technological (and many other) advancements of the last 100 years goodbye because no for-profit enterprise (and many universities) would kill their research and development budgets.
 
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Όταν όλα είναι ελεύθερα και δωρεάν, τίποτα δεν έχει αξία. And in case you're not Greek: when everything is free/open and unearned, nothing has value. And I'll assume you're not Greek because if you were, you'd understand the impact of your statement and the harm the "gimme" culture has done to one of the oldest and most storied cultures on this big blue marble.

My signature used to read παν μέτρον άριστον, everything in moderation. You shouldn't have only corporate interests, but you also shouldn't completely devalue creation. Because, if you do, no one will create (without incentives, which those "red" systems you support usually enforced through abuse of persons and those close to them)
 
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luvmysuper

My Elbows Leak
Costs are high BECAUSE unscrupulous entities have a cottage industry that consists of stealing other people's intellectual property.
A profit has to be made quick because they know the thieves at places like Yaqi are going to steal their hard work and sell cheap knock offs because folks want cheap.
Don't buy the garbage these thieves sell, and regular manufacturers would have an opportunity to sell at a lower price over a longer period.

B&B Terms Of Use forbids promoting illegal activities. Read 'em.
Theft is illegal.
If someone is promoting theft here, report it, we'll remove the post, and if it continues - the poster.

Buy your cheap copies if you want, but don't promote or defend stealing here.
 
I am often struck by how comfortable so many of you are here about buying low-cost fake goods, and how often this is encouraged here. “You aren’t sure whether to get a Feather AC razor? Just buy a $15 clone on AliExpress and see if you like it (and here are pics of the five fakes that I recommend)”. I’ve seen this advice hundreds of times here and it is accepted as completely normal. I see it so often that I think the B&B community is actually playing a significant role in normalising and encouraging this. We are making people aware of the fakes, recommending them, and letting members know we think this is ok.

It makes me question my stance that intellectual property theft is flat wrong, and participating in it by knowingly buying such goods is also wrong. But, while I am all for disregarding laws which are wrong, I still can only see this as a kind of theft, and I cannot see the right in what is happening.

I get that you can argue these manufacturers of fake goods are providing a service to people who want something like the branded razor at a much lower price, and that if similar goods can be made much cheaper then why shouldn’t we reward the manufacturers who will do this for us? But isn’t that just rationalising a kind of theft because we find it convenient?

It just leaves me surprised that there is so little acceptance here of the principle of intellectual property rights. Maybe this is a widespread attitude - it seems to be. Maybe it is influenced by the way pharmaceutical companies have become so adept at abusing these protections to the detriment of the public, and people have just become soured against the whole idea of intellectual property. But even if the exact law is imperfect, the bottom line remains that this principle of intellectual property protection exists because otherwise there is little incentive to develop better things - and we all want better things.

I’m with Shane on this. B&B is, by omission, allowing a culture to develop here of promoting intellectual property theft. I know it’s hard to draw the lines - who decides what is a copy and what is a legitimate product? But there are certainly cases, like the Yaqi Vector or every shavette that is called by members a “Feather clone” or “Kai clone” where it is clear enough what is going on.
 

luvmysuper

My Elbows Leak
I am often struck by how comfortable so many of you are here about buying low-cost fake goods, and how often this is encouraged here. “You aren’t sure whether to get a Feather AC razor? Just buy a $15 clone on AliExpress and see if you like it (and here are pics of the five fakes that I recommend)”. I’ve seen this advice hundreds of times here and it is accepted as completely normal. I see it so often that I think the B&B community is actually playing a significant role in normalising and encouraging this. We are making people aware of the fakes, recommending them, and letting members know we think this is ok.

It makes me question my stance that intellectual property theft is flat wrong, and participating in it by knowingly buying such goods is also wrong. But, while I am all for disregarding laws which are wrong, I still can only see this as a kind of theft, and I cannot see the right in what is happening.

I get that you can argue these manufacturers of fake goods are providing a service to people who want something like the branded razor at a much lower price, and that if similar goods can be made much cheaper then why shouldn’t we reward the manufacturers who will do this for us? But isn’t that just rationalising a kind of theft because we find it convenient?

It just leaves me surprised that there is so little acceptance here of the principle of intellectual property rights. Maybe this is a widespread attitude - it seems to be. Maybe it is influenced by the way pharmaceutical companies have become so adept at abusing these protections to the detriment of the public, and people have just become soured against the whole idea of intellectual property. But even if the exact law is imperfect, the bottom line remains that this principle of intellectual property protection exists because otherwise there is little incentive to develop better things - and we all want better things.

I’m with Shane on this. B&B is, by omission, allowing a culture to develop here of promoting intellectual property theft. I know it’s hard to draw the lines - who decides what is a copy and what is a legitimate product? But there are certainly cases, like the Yaqi Vector or every shavette that is called by members a “Feather clone” or “Kai clone” where it is clear enough what is going on.
See my post above yours.
Please report posts that advocate theft, which includes intellectual property theft.

We have to make a stand on this. It's wrong, and we do NOT want B&B to be an enabling platform for thieves.

The members here read far more posts than the Mod Team can possibly try to read. We depend on upstanding members to let us know.

If you are a Vendor and feel that your design is being infringed upon and that infringement is advocated here - PLEASE contact me.

For the members - There is a distinct difference between being aware that a copy exists, and having a thread where members advocate or promote that product.

We will not censor the idea that an item in fact exists, but we don't have to support the promotion of that item, or let people advocate that purchasing a stolen design is ok.

Free speech exists at the Government level to prevent retaliation against those who speak out against said Government.

There is no "Free Speech" in private enterprise, and B&B is a private enterprise.
 
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I got the Yaqi in a lot purchase. I couldn't get a decent shave out of it.

I wasn't impressed by mine either and I just wanted to see what's the big deal about the AC style razors and blades and for me they are quite similar to the injector razors and blades, but the shaving is obviously a bit different and the blades (and some of the razors) are way more expensive. I'll keep using mine until my pack of Schick P-30 is done and then I might just give it to someone or just throw it away.
 
Shane,

Two years later.... how are the Vector sales? I've read dozens of reviews from people who own your fine AC razor, both the SS and Titanium versions. I think I've only heard one slightly negative comment in all that reading. and it was a minor thing.

Most people who own a Vector are proud to own and use it. They are a passionate bunch, promoting the razor, your company and you personally. The very best advertising.... Quite a few of them have both versions and love them both equally well.

I hope the foreign .... I was going to say "competition".. .but that isn't really fair... piracy?... isn't affecting your sales and that your company continues to be profitable.
 
So here is an honest question, Does the fact that you guys are saying No promotion of clones go as far as all mentions or pictures of said items ?? If so then would that not also include ANY SOTD pics or Aftershave or Colognes that are a Tribute of others property including as examples Creed and Floid and Old Spice "tributes" ?? How Far should it go ?? I mean even vendors here make tributes/ knockoff of others properties so do you mean to "censor" them also ?? I am not trying to "stir up" anything I am honestly asking what should be reported.....
 
And Colonial before them, and Cobra before them, Etc., Etc.

It's not just that they made an AC razor, it's the complete copy of the entire head. Anyone can say whatever they want, but the flat screw through the blade is a definite innovation and unique. It was shady as $%!+ (Poop) to blatantly steal the idea.
Yes a flat screw is unique.. So does that mean that Yaqi's current rendition is okay now that they didn't use a flat screw ? Also I currently am facing a conundrum should All current straight razors be boycotted since their Blades all are copies of one another ?? I mean what about DE blades , aren't they all copies of one another.. What about Shave soaps , If 2 companies Both use tallow and are the same scent then aren't they copies... Even vendors or companies who make shaving brushes that look like others, aren't they also guilty ???...Also where do we stop? What about cars that are basically a copy of others ideas? Should we only have One electric car since that was one companies idea?? And Watches and Alcohol and Cigars and Tools?? You see this is a slippery slope you guys are treading....
 
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Kentos

Wiped out at 25
Yes a flat screw is unique.. So does that mean that Yaqi's current rendition is okay now that they didn't use a flat screw ? Also I currently am facing a conundrum should All current straight razors be boycotted since their Blades all are copies of one another ?? I mean what about DE blades , aren't they all copies of one another.. What about Shave soaps , If 2 companies Both use tallow and are the same scent then aren't they copies... Even vendors or companies who make shaving brushes that look like others, aren't they also guilty ???...Also where do we stop? What about cars that are basically a copy of others ideas? Should we only have One electric car since that was one companies idea?? And Watches and Alcohol and Cigars and Tools?? You see this is a slippery slope you guys are treading....


When Gillette first came out with their DE blades it was patented and for a while no company could manufacture them. Patents expire and at that point it can be made by anyone.

You talk about cars, well Ford did indeed hold many patents for the Model-T. If you look back there are many straight razor patents as well. Shaving soap? Well hey there are shaving soap patents as well believe it or not.

I’m sure there are/were cigar patents, brush patents, gun patents etc. Thing is many if not most have expired. Why do you think everyone and their brother owns a non-browning/Colt 1911? And non Armalite Ar-15’s?

Many if not all of the things you use today and take for granted were at one time patented and you could only purchase it from a single entity, or an entity that licensed that design from the patent holder. Lightbulbs, egg beaters, TVs, Phillps screwdrivers, post-it notes, ballpoint pens, coffee makers, electric stoves, headphones, everything.

So no, there is no “slippery slope”. There is, however, a problem with companies using other people’s intellectual property that is still protected by law. It is that which B&B stands against.
 

luvmysuper

My Elbows Leak
So here is an honest question, Does the fact that you guys are saying No promotion of clones go as far as all mentions or pictures of said items ?? If so then would that not also include ANY SOTD pics or Aftershave or Colognes that are a Tribute of others property including as examples Creed and Floid and Old Spice "tributes" ?? How Far should it go ?? I mean even vendors here make tributes/ knockoff of others properties so do you mean to "censor" them also ?? I am not trying to "stir up" anything I am honestly asking what should be reported.....
If you honestly don't understand what promoting the illicit copying of other peoples intellectual property means, and don't know what to post or what to report, there's two easy solutions.
1. Don't post anything. You can't mess up if you don't post. Report everything. You'll be sure to get them that way.

2. Go ahead and promote the theft of peoples work, and we'll contact you.
 
BTW in the US a utility patent last 20 years, and a design patent, 15 years.
Some only last for 10 years and some last for the lifetime of the original holder plus 70 years after death. Some also can and have been renewed. Patents law also says that some things like things that have general shape or use are not easily copyrighted or able to be enforced.
 
If you honestly don't understand what promoting the illicit copying of other peoples intellectual property means, and don't know what to post or what to report, there's two easy solutions.
1. Don't post anything. You can't mess up if you don't post. Report everything. You'll be sure to get them that way.

2. Go ahead and promote the theft of peoples work, and we'll contact you.
As most know I am fairly careful with what I post anyway.

My main problem is that per your post you are saying Promoting intellectual property infringements . That really should include Any post that includes images or words regarding said properties.. I mean this thread is 5 pages long and has NOT been deleted yet , so isn't that in itself supporting promotion of said device ?

I honestly had no intentions of getting involved in this discussion because I was fully aware that it would probably be met with negative replies ( which it has ) ...

As I stated in a question earlier though , since Yaqi has now changed the design of their AC single edge razor to NOT include the flat post does that mean it is acceptable for discussion ? I mean its not including the unique flat screw anymore....

Honestly this discussion doesn't really include myself anyway , simply due to the fact that I don't typically do reviews. I was honestly curious about what constituted promotion and was not trying to offend anyone. Although I have noticed there have been several instances where others have wrote hateful remarks about other people due to those individuals having an opinion which the poster of the hateful remark felt were different than theirs ( which I also don't think should be allowed ) ...

All people should be free to have a/n opinion and not have to fear being insulted because of such .....

Well I have stated my thoughts which I know some won't agree with , so have a good time to all..

I wish you all the best....

See you around the forum.
 

luvmysuper

My Elbows Leak
As most know I am fairly careful with what I post anyway.

My main problem is that per your post you are saying Promoting intellectual property infringements . That really should include Any post that includes images or words regarding said properties.. I mean this thread is 5 pages long and has NOT been deleted yet , so isn't that in itself supporting promotion of said device ?

I honestly had no intentions of getting involved in this discussion because I was fully aware that it would probably be met with negative replies ( which it has ) ...

As I stated in a question earlier though , since Yaqi has now changed the design of their AC single edge razor to NOT include the flat post does that mean it is acceptable for discussion ? I mean its not including the unique flat screw anymore....

Honestly this discussion doesn't really include myself anyway , simply due to the fact that I don't typically do reviews. I was honestly curious about what constituted promotion and was not trying to offend anyone. Although I have noticed there have been several instances where others have wrote hateful remarks about other people due to those individuals having an opinion which the poster of the hateful remark felt were different than theirs ( which I also don't think should be allowed ) ...

All people should be free to have a/n opinion and not have to fear being insulted because of such .....

Well I have stated my thoughts which I know some won't agree with , so have a good time to all..

I wish you all the best....

See you around the forum.
Everyone is free to have an opinion.
Everyone is not free to post whatever they want to say here.

It's really very simple.
Don't promote theft.
If someone does, they should expect their post to be removed.
If it's habitual, they should expect to be removed.
 
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You can’t copy quality. You can copy a design, but not quality. Patents have a limited protection to the inventor. Branding, reputation, retail distribution, QC are more important.

There are premium Chinese brands, but their price range is similar to American or European brands. If you use quality materials, good QC, good craftsmanship, marketing department, there aren’t many corner cuts to do. Even if a company makes a premium version (with similar price) stealing a design, I think most of people will buy the original design.

A 10.00 razor should be very crude near a 200.00 razor.
 
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