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Yaqi copied the Vector

Cheap, cheap , very cheap copy (and not referring to $).... should not surprise anyone, given the world we live in....
 
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The copy looks pretty poorly made. The screw looks to be on fairly crooked; not even sure it will be able to hold a blade straight, given that the flat part of the screw is supposed to go through a hole in the blade.
 
It’s a blatant knock off and it looks terrible.

I’m not sure where people are getting the idea that the vector wasn’t innovative. It’s the only artist club razor where the screw is fully flat and goes through the blade.

If I were Shane, I would be MAD.

@Blackland Razors
 
Ridiculous. Stop buying cheap, ****ty copies if you want the artisans, makers, and innovators who continue providing new products for the community to survive. Supporting and sharing the work of knock-offs who steal designs and leverage an artificially deflated currency to produce products at a cost that we can't ever match will eventually kill our businesses. If you enjoy having artisans around to make new things then stop buying this crap. And this applies to all knock-offs. Support makers, not thieves.

I've said this at other forums, Badger and Blade should shut this thread and ban the discussion of knock-off products. We spend time, energy, expertise, and money here and B&B should take a stand and support the vendors, especially the paid ones. If not, given enough time there won't be a whole lot to discuss on this forum as knock-offs steal our business and eliminate the incentive to invest time and money into creating new products.

Edit: Many thanks and kudos to the bulk of the members in this thread. Your support and desire to pursue the real thing is deeply appreciated. <3
 
I was prepared for this battle and that's okay. We can respectfully disagree without animosity. It's important to remember that our incentives may not align. I'm here to protect my job and that is likely not why you're here. Often these perspectives don't clash, but here they might. :)

A couple short notes. First, I love B&B, but it has a reputation for censorship so if you're staunchly anti-censorship you're already in the wrong place.

Second, all I'm saying is that if the community doesn't stand up against knock-offs you will lose innovation and lose the contribution of makers. Simple as that. I've already spoken to several makers, designers, and artisans who are ceasing or slowing their development of new products because they know it'll be knocked off immediately which disincentivizes us from investing resources into R&D. How the community chooses to deal with that is up for debate, but it's an increasingly large problem and forums can have an oversized impact in remedying this. Or maybe we as a community don't want to remedy it. And I guess that's okay, too, but it means we'll lose innovation and product development as well as community engagement since you don't see the knock-off companies engaging here. Pros and cons.
 
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Would a product selling for under $10 really compete for market share with another at $200? The Vector is a beautiful design finished to a high quality using the best materials. The Yaqi head looks a little rough. Some of that may just be the photograph but it's certainly not a luxury product like the Vector.

I just started wet shaving earlier in the year. The Vector is the first SE razor I've seen that I actually want to try - but I can't afford to spend $200 on a whim. If I tried the copy and liked it that would make me even more keen to get the real thing.

I'd probably also be posting on the forums how great the Vector design is. That might help to generate interest.
 
Would a product selling for under $10 really compete for market share with another at $200? The Vector is a beautiful design finished to a high quality using the best materials. The Yaqi head looks a little rough. Some of that may just be the photograph but it's certainly not a luxury product like the Vector.

I just started wet shaving earlier in the year. The Vector is the first SE razor I've seen that I actually want to try - but I can't afford to spend $200 on a whim. If I tried the copy and liked it that would make me even more keen to get the real thing.

I'd probably also be posting on the forums how great the Vector design is. That might help to generate interest.

This is definitely right. I'm not particularly concerned that the market for the Vector will dry up overnight because everyone wants a cheap knock-off instead. But what about when/if they CNC one? It's about devaluing innovation and undermining the work put into designing and creating these products.

Regarding posting on forums about how great the design is, I do. And it is. But also, we vendors can't post everywhere here so my ability to do so is actually somewhat limited.
 

If fighting for my business turns away some customers then so be it. I see no other alternative. Sitting on the sidelines and shrugging while my products are knocked off is not my style. I put a lot of effort, passion, time, and money into making these things and you can bet that I'm going to stand up for what I've created when it's threatened.

I've always aimed to create a business that I would personally want to purchase from. And in my personal life I like companies who fight for what they've made and who scratch and claw for every inch. I'll always support people who believe enough in what they've made that they're willing to fight for it especially when they have to ruffle some feathers to do so. It would be a lot easier and safer for me to just sigh and walk away with my tail between my legs because I'm afraid of losing a customer. But I don't personally respect businesses who do that and so I won't let Blackland become that. If that is unattractive to a potential customer despite the reputation of my products, my customer service, and my willingness to engage in the community then I'm okay with that because I know that there are guys like me out there who value businesses with integrity and determination.
 
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These are good questions. I sense that you are asking them rhetorically and with a specific intent, but I'll just answer them straight.

- Worth is always subjective. What's worth it to me may not be worth it you. I NEVER tell customers that the only way to shave well is to spend big. I don't believe that's true so I don't say it. In fact, I've specifically recommended against my own products in favor of a cheaper option to many beginners because I think it's a better path for them. Still, my business has grown well and continues to perform nicely so there is clearly some worthiness here.

- This is a similar question and answer to the previous. What is essential? It's a matter of values and those vary from person to person.

- Specifically to the Vector, the material allows for the reliable construction of the narrow center post and the incredibly thin cap. We tested in other materials and found it to be unreliable except in steel (and titanium). In 3+ years of using this 2mm post we've seen only two come back out of thousands of units sold between the Sabre and Vector. So yes, if you want your razor to survive a drop and to not cross-thread, SS is the correct material.

- I don't believe that. I leave it in the hands of the community. If you want products like this (and even knock-offs like this) then creators and makers have to be able to make a living. If the community supports knock-offs, then originals die off. If they don't want that to happen, then we take action against knock-offs.

- Same as above, basically.

- I'm not a craftsman and have never claimed to be. I have deep respect for actual craftsmen in our community hand-making brushes, straight razors, soaps, bowls, etc. I simply design razors and run a small business to the best of my abilities and with all the integrity I can muster.

Thanks!
 
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My argument is not against razors made in China. ATT and Fine have both commissioned production of their products in China. That is their decision that may cost some sales because of where the production is and may increase sales based on cost. I would certainly have an issue if the overseas factory produces an overrun of the same product and then sells the overrun under their private label or even worse under the real label. I have seen this done on more than one occasion. It is stealing and no cost savings can ever condone supporting these thieves.

The razor industry that we as members of this forum follow is a niche industry and we are fortunate to have a number of artisans. These artisans operate in the US, Canada, Portugal, Turkey and other countries. They do not enjoy the kind of sales volume that allowed Gillette for instance to produce a high quality product at a relatively low cost. That is why most artisans incur high production costs.

Highly rated razor manufacturers come and go for various reasons, some production related some financially related and some a combination of both. For example Raw Shaving, Weber, the original Tradere (before this great razor was brought back by Blackland with the blessing of and most likely royalty paid to the ordinal owner), where are they now?

We are fortunate to have the opportunity to not only purchase but to learn about what makes these razors what they are. I have personally spoken to Matt at Timeless, Stan (some years back) at ATT, and Shane at Blackland.

Shane’s comments above while partially self-serving in defending his business and livelihood are also defending this community and the ability for us to experience innovation in design and materials.

The article linked to shows this in the Swiss watch industry.

 

These are your opinions, and you are welcome to them. But they are opinions, not facts.

My personal opinion is that the Blackland Razors Vector OC is an incredible razor. Definitely on my list of favorite razors, and may very well be right at the top of that list. It is that good.

To me, the Vector is very much worth the money I spent on it. I have zero interest in getting a cheap knock-off - especially one with a zamak head.

Just my opinion and YMMV.
 
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Ridiculous. Stop buying cheap, ****ty copies if you want the artisans, makers, and innovators who continue providing new products for the community to survive. Supporting and sharing the work of knock-offs who steal designs and leverage an artificially deflated currency to produce products at a cost that we can't ever match will eventually kill our businesses. If you enjoy having artisans around to make new things then stop buying this crap. And this applies to all knock-offs. Support makers, not thieves.

I've said this at other forums, Badger and Blade should shut this thread and ban the discussion of knock-off products. We spend time, energy, expertise, and money here and B&B should take a stand and support the vendors, especially the paid ones. If not, given enough time there won't be a whole lot to discuss on this forum as knock-offs steal our business and eliminate the incentive to invest time and money into creating new products.

Edit: Many thanks and kudos to the bulk of the members in this thread. Your support and desire to pursue the real thing is deeply appreciated. QUOTE]

I started this tread. The purpose was to alert not to promote. I also sent you an email about it. As a customer of yours I disturbed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
A forum is a place for individuals not businesses. As such, we can discuss whatever we like.
If it wasn't for businesses that Mfg the products we discuss on forums there would be no need for any forums to discuss anything!! Lets also not forget that businesses, like @Blackland Razors, pay a premium to be part of a forum to introduce their products and or wares to be discussed and to be there to provide additional info if asked to further discussions on forums!!
 
I never mentioned any type of censoring in my statement so not sure why you even would imply such, I merely replied to you saying that forums are meant for individuals only and not businesses!! My post was pretty clear and mentioned nothing of censoring in any way, shape, or form!! If you read it as such you need help....
 
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