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Yaqi Adjustable Prototype

My post was not in reference to razors made decades earlier that removed the base plate notch from the original Gibbs. Just in relation to these two companies, Heritage & Yaqi and on what has transpired between them and the desire to produce a near replica of a famed razor.

Respectfully,
GB
I appreciate that. That's a bit of a shambles. It would be interesting to know who Heritage were working with in China. I'll go out on a limb and guess Baili. They did a similar stunt with Vikings. Vikings contracted them to produce a razor exclusively for Vikings - the Blade Chieftain, which became an Amazon best seller. Baili decided to capitalize on the success and produced a razor that was almost identical to the Blade Chieftain - the Baili BD179. There was some bad blood and I understand Vikings no longer works with Baili. The whole story was published by Vikings somewhere on the net.

Possibly Heritage was also working with Baili, but Baili decided to go with Yaqi instead - using the Heritage idea and possibly design, depending on how far Heritage has come. Baili makes some pretty nice razors at very reasonable prices, but IP is just not a big thing in China. The whole concept of 'cheating' and plagiarism is different. My wife teaches at university in China, and students copying from each other at exams is considered totally acceptable. They even go into the room before the exam and write notes on the walls. It's a different culture. If you want to do business in China, you better be aware of that. Sounds like Heritage was a bit blue eyed venturing into this.

Another contender would be Weishi. Some other Vikings razor look too similar to Weishi's to be a coincidence. Weishi also has a bit of a signature handle that gives their razors away.

As far as I know, Ming Shi makes only two razors - the 2000S (Futur Clone), and the 3000S - also an adjustable. I don't know if they make other razors under contract.

All the other Chinese names seem to sell only razors these three make under their own name. At least the way it appears to me mostly from looking at what's available on AliExpress and Amazon.
 
I may be mistaken but doent Baili still make the vikings razors?


I appreciate that. That's a bit of a shambles. It would be interesting to know who Heritage were working with in China. I'll go out on a limb and guess Baili. They did a similar stunt with Vikings. Vikings contracted them to produce a razor exclusively for Vikings - the Blade Chieftain, which became an Amazon best seller. Baili decided to capitalize on the success and produced a razor that was almost identical to the Blade Chieftain - the Baili BD179. There was some bad blood and I understand Vikings no longer works with Baili. The whole story was published by Vikings somewhere on the net.

Possibly Heritage was also working with Baili, but Baili decided to go with Yaqi instead - using the Heritage idea and possibly design, depending on how far Heritage has come. Baili makes some pretty nice razors at very reasonable prices, but IP is just not a big thing in China. The whole concept of 'cheating' and plagiarism is different. My wife teaches at university in China, and students copying from each other at exams is considered totally acceptable. They even go into the room before the exam and write notes on the walls. It's a different culture. If you want to do business in China, you better be aware of that. Sounds like Heritage was a bit blue eyed venturing into this.

Another contender would be Weishi. Some other Vikings razor look too similar to Weishi's to be a coincidence. Weishi also has a bit of a signature handle that gives their razors away.

As far as I know, Ming Shi makes only two razors - the 2000S (Futur Clone), and the 3000S - also an adjustable. I don't know if they make other razors under contract.

All the other Chinese names seem to sell only razors these three make under their own name. At least the way it appears to me mostly from looking at what's available on AliExpress and Amazon.
 
One useful effect of this double replica event from our perspective as consumers is yaqi has set a baseline price for such a razor that heritage would have to take notice of since razor enthusiasts are aware of it. Competition will result in a better and more efficient price for those interested in a gibbs/palmera replica.
 
Gillette slim is cheaper.
And better.
Well that's certainly subjective (the better part). I prefer the Gibbs over the Slim, the Progress over both, and the Apollo Mikron, which isn't cheap, over all of them. The Slim has great build (the best) and an inoffensive shave. I never ever reach for it.

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One useful effect of this double replica event from our perspective as consumers is yaqi has set a baseline price for such a razor that heritage would have to take notice of since razor enthusiasts are aware of it. Competition will result in a better and more efficient price for those interested in a gibbs/palmera replica.
I have to agree with your assessment that is looks like the Spanish designed Palmera adjustable to a tee. Not a lot of information on the Palmera razor either but more on the Gibbs design that folks really enjoy because of it's smoothness and handling.
 
I have to agree with your assessment that is looks like the Spanish designed Palmera adjustable to a tee. Not a lot of information on the Palmera razor either but more on the Gibbs design that folks really enjoy because of it's smoothness and handling.
I seriously doubt Yaqi is intending to copy the Palmera, they simply want to use their existing post-hole head as the basis for the adjustable, which is exactly what Heritage told us about the switch.

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There was some bad blood and I understand Vikings no longer works with Baili. The whole story was published by Vikings somewhere on the net.
Vikings Blade issued a long statement about this event:


In a nutshell:

Vikings Blade contracted Baili to produce the Chieftain according to VB's specs. After the Chieftain reached bestseller status on Amazon, Baili's production line broke down and the moulds were destroyed. Baili suggested that VB design a simplified version of the Chieftain. VB agreed. Baili produced this new razor which morphed into the BD179. However, Baili's sales department got overzealous and allowed re-branders to get hold of the BD179. These re-branders proceeded to market it as an actual Chieftain while selling it for bargain basement prices to undercut Vikings Blade.

Vikings Blade had to assert their intellectual property rights to get everybody to stop associating the BD179 with the Chieftain. Subsequently, VB created new moulds and had the more advanced Chieftain produced by someone else.

Meanwhile, Baili reined in the re-branders by constraining their supplies of the BD179. That seemed to satisfy Vikings Blade, but they're still mad at Baili for letting things get out of control.
 
Hello Ron R
I cannot take the credit for naming it as a replica of the Palmera aa I was merely following the lead of romsitsa and others on the previous page of this thread...

I have to agree with your assessment that is looks like the Spanish designed Palmera adjustable to a tee. Not a lot of information on the Palmera razor either but more on the Gibbs design that folks really enjoy because of it's smoothness and handling.
 
@ fmueller:

...... but IP is just not a big thing in China. The whole concept of 'cheating' and plagiarism is different. My wife teaches at university in China, and students copying from each other at exams is considered totally acceptable. They even go into the room before the exam and write notes on the walls. It's a different culture. If you want to do business in China, you better be aware of that.

This link to the cultural background, in which the results of the group rather than the individual matter, has been an eye-opener for me. Thank you.
 
I seriously doubt Yaqi is intending to copy the Palmera, they simply want to use their existing post-hole head as the basis for the adjustable, which is exactly what Heritage told us about the switch.

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Yaqi is not coping it to perfection but they are using Palmera design to make a slightly different razor. If it was in the Western world they could be taken to court if Patent was still valid, I doubt if the patent is valid for legal jurisdiction.
My father had Patents on his auto body straightening equipment for 3 countries that have time tables for protection for the creator of what ever they design. It is expensive to protect what ever you design world wide now a days but some corporations have full time lawyers and it's not a problem for the privileged.
Have some great shaves!
 
Hello Ron R
I cannot take the credit for naming it as a replica of the Palmera aa I was merely following the lead of romsitsa and others on the previous page of this thread...
There’s only maybe just a few ways that you can make mods to a Gibbs to accept standard blades. I don’t recall anyone calling the Rex a Palmera copy even though it is the same basic idea just with linear shallow posts.

The Micrometric and Palmera are unique and wonderful but at the end of the day they are basically Gibbs razors with very minor blade loading differences.

You also have to ask yourself why would anyone in their right mind would make an exact copy of the Gibbs today when blades would have to be modified to fit. I believe that if those mods never previously existed, any modern manufacturer would easily stumble upon the idea of using posts to make it work.

If anything, I think if you want to say that someone copied the solution for adapting a standard blades to a Gibbs, I guess that argument could be made but those are still Gibbs razors.
 
Yaqi is not coping it to perfection but they are using Palmera design to make a slightly different razor.
We will agree to disagree. Heritage would know and they indicated differently that Yaqi simply wanted to use their own head design rather than the Gibbs-Precision that Heritage wanted , the Palmera did not figure in to their calculation.

The "if it were patented" discussion is pointless. Charcoal razors were by their own admission inspired by the Gillette New Deluxe. Nobody screamed how dare you at them for using a tweaked 90 year old razor design to kick their company off the ground. Same with Razor Emporium and the Rex. "If I had four wheels" I'd be an automobile.

If Heritage made any even potentially patentable modifications to the decades old designs there is no indication of that. The act of bad faith for Yaqi was producing for their own benefit what they were supposed to be producing for Heritage via a third party. Theft of intellectual property is not the central crime here. .





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It’s irrelevant if a razor is a copy of another razor. To me what matters is the quality of the copy and the shave it gives. The Yaqi brushes are nice but I’m not a fan of the razors.
 
It’s irrelevant if a razor is a copy of another razor. To me what matters is the quality of the copy and the shave it gives. The Yaqi brushes are nice but I’m not a fan of the razors.
Their SLOC has been hugely successful and is a better design for most than PAAs version of the Grand Shave King. I use mine all the time.

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I see some serious potential. I like the thought of an adjustable 89 so I like the scallops. Brass or stainless would be nice but the cost would rocket up. I'd like to see cost under $50 but I am cheap. I also like the shorter handle. I have the Yaqi 7 gear adjustable and it shaves well but the handle is just too long for me. The way the new adjustable is made, should be easy to offer multiple handle lengths I would think. Looking forward to the final product.
 
From the video, this version has the same issue as the early HCS prototype. HCS was trying to resolve it before that whole “Thing” happened.

Not really an issue but a first generation Gibbs Adjustable thing I’m guessing.

I have a very early Gibbs, year unknown but it has the lines and curves of the 1930s Ad razor. Slightly different in curves and dimension than the later Gibbs Adjustables which are more angular in style. It was my first Gibbs. To adjust those, you have to loosen the knob.

The issue specifically that I observed which is in contrast with the later Gibbs generations I own is that the handle does not thread on directly, rather there is what I describe, using a 4x4 vehicle transfer case example, a slip yoke. If the knob is tightened, it is very hard to adjust.

My other later Gibbs razors have handles that thread directly on without this “Yoke” and you don’t have to loosen the knob to adjust. Not a terrible thing just a nuance to what the early ones were like to use.

My guess is that they used a very early generation Gibbs like mine as a template and thus inherited this nuance.

As for the canting issue he described, this would probably work it’s way out the more the spring is adjusted. A simple fix is to rotate the spring or just play with it until it starts evening out. The same occurred with my VB Emperors. The springs wore in and they just adjusted perfectly level after a while from use. The second VB I obtained, the Meiji, I accelerated this by playing the spring over about 5 minutes.
 
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