Wine drinkers?

[ouch]

The biggest jump in wine quality is between the bad cheap wines and the good cheap wines. Once you get away from the $4 swill, pay a few $$$ more and find the RIGHT $10 wine, you aren't that far away from wine greatness. And if you are willing to pay $15-20, you can find plenty of world class wines. For $40, you can drink some of the best wine the world has ever seen.

What the $100-$500-$? wines have going for them is usually a combination of Brand name, rarety, and demand. From a purely quality point of view, you are unlikely to get a wine for $100 that is much, if any, better than a top quality bottle for somewhere in the $20-$50 range. Good wine is good wine. It's the MAKING that makes it so, not the name or the price. Wealth can help a lot, but it's not the end-all.

If you drank nothing costing more than $30, but chose them well, you'd drink better than most people who depended on pricepoint.

Andre

With the sole exception that it is still possible to get a world class wine for four dollars, the above is some of the best advice you'll ever read anywhere.

There are far too many connie-sewers who are nothing more than name droppers. It's easy to walk into a wine shop with a fat wallet and buy legendary first growths or popular new boutique wines. I wonder how many of those folks have ever tried:

Domaine de Trevaillon, Les Baux, Coteaux d Aix en Provance

Nicolas Joly’s lovely Savennières, Clos de la Coulée de Serrant, a wonderful chenin blanc

Muller-Catoir Haardter Mandelring Scheurebe Spatlese, a mind blowing effort from a virtually unknown grape

Domaine Peyre Rose, Coteaux du Languedoc, Clos des Cistes



The above are but two reds and two whites that are as fine as anything ever produced. No merlot. No chardonnay. No enormous pricetags. Just wonderful expressions of the vigneron's art.

If one had to spend a fortune to enjoy wine, I would recommend finding another hobby. Fortunately, it's not at all necessary.

 

[TheYoshi]

The 6 litres of Mondavi probably would have sufficed.

I have to shrink these pics.

I demand to be invited to your next party! Heh, seriously though nice line up there. Although I'll be honest for the most part I prefer to pair the "monsters" up against a few lesser wines, helps you really appreciate them for what they are.
So instead of: great, great, great, great...
you get: very nice, good, good, FANTASTIC!!!!

 

[TheYoshi]

Moses, you give some great advice worthy of your namesake. The D'Arenbergs are all excellent. I have a case of their Dead Arm- it's one of the best Aussies I've ever had, at least as good as the Grange. Yum.

Have you guys tried any of the wines from "Two Hands"? Not badly priced and really quite good, I'm partial to the "Angel's share" myself.

Also for North American Syrah give Pax a try, I LOVE their wines.

 

[TheYoshi]

Port? Port? Did someone mention port? I am no conniesuer by any stretch. I have come to like the buttery texture of tawny port. Would anyone care to make a recommendation for a 10 or 20 year tawny? I am familiar with the old names like Fonseca, Taylor Fladgate, and some others. Unfortunately, I don't have the means for $100 bottles of wine. I could swing $25-35 on special occasions. I have learned that high price does not necessarily mean great taste. At least to my untrained palate. I've never splurged for a bottle of vintage port but have tried late bottled vintage. Decent but could not match the texture of the tawny. Thanks

Regards, Todd

I think a great everyday budget port is "Benjamin Australian Tawny" it's about 12 bucks. I use it for drinking and cooking on "regular" occasions. BTW if you ever cook with a wine you wouldn't drink, ask yourself why.

 

[boboakalfb]

I think a great everyday budget port is "Benjamin Australian Tawny" it's about 12 bucks. I use it for drinking and cooking on "regular" occasions. BTW if you ever cook with a wine you wouldn't drink, ask yourself why.

Exactly...when reducing wine you are concentrating the flavors...so if you wouldn't drink it then you shouldn't cook with it.

A relatively simple dessert is port or zin poached pears served with blue cheese...very good and easy.

I am pretty jealous of the knowledge of French and also new world wines. I am lucky enough to live less than an hour and a half from the Napa Valley so we are able to go about 5 - 6 times a year. Since this is a very well known wine region the prices have jumped over the years. Even tasting room fees have grown accordingly...It is very common for rooms to charge $20 to $30 for tastings. Now Rubicon Estates...formerly Neibaum Coppola charges $25 just to enter the winery...even if you didn't want to taste.

There are a lot of very good wines in the $50 to $60 range...Duckhorn, Silver Oaks Alex, Cakebread and lesser known wineries Twomey (Ray Duncan and Sons...Silver Oak Owners) and Von Strasser.

I agree that it is easy to find good wines in this price range...but finding them in the $10 - $20 range is the challenge...I believe there are alot out there.

Does anyone know of a wine shop on the SF Bay Area Peninsula that is knowledgable with some of the new world wines?

 

[Phog Allen]

I think a great everyday budget port is "Benjamin Australian Tawny" it's about 12 bucks. I use it for drinking and cooking on "regular" occasions. BTW if you ever cook with a wine you wouldn't drink, ask yourself why.

Yoshi, I quite agree! The same vendor who gives me such good advice led me to that brand and I've enjoyed a couple of bottles of it. One of the first thingsI learned when I tried port a number of years ago was that if it wasn't made in Portugal, it had no business calling itself port. The stuff coming out of Ca. was just abominable. Cheap red wine with enough brandy poured in it to make it "drinkable". Pure dreck. So when this vendor first recommended Benjamin, I raised a skeptical Spock eyebrow. He assured me the Aussies had this one down and that it was a great bargain. He was correct. A very buttery, non cloying sweetness that is just wonderful. It goes for $11-12 per bottle around here and I notice lately it's hard to get! This stuff sells. This is why I was aking about the 10-20 yr. tawnies. If they surpass this stuff in character then I may never bother with vintage again.

Regards, Todd

 

[Andre]

I would actually agree that it is possible to find really good wines in the $4-6 range, but it's not always as easy as it should be. The vast majority of stuff in that range is simple swill, but there are some gems (and all too often they vary so much from year to year that you can't even just find your brand and stay with it).

The biggest issue with the REALLY cheap stuff is that it is almost never made to, or capable of, ageing. They are usually made to be consumed within a year or two of release, and so are really missing some of the taste componants of great wines that are also meant to age. MY OPINION is that you can get very good and really cheap wine, but it is not really in the same league as a $12 wine that is also made for a bit of ageing. There's nothing wrong with that, and I drink my share of non-ageworthy wines, but they really are two different things. A Cab made in vast quantities to be drinkable upon release, might be very good, but it will NEVER be in the same ballpark as a slightly more robust cab meant to sit for five years.

Andre

 

[Phog Allen]

A relatively simple dessert is port or zin poached pears served with blue cheese...very good and easy.

Bob, that sounds fantastic. About 2-3 times a year I put on an afternoon tea for the ladies of the family. I always try to come up with something special for the victuals and last year found this great sandwich recipe for a port/fig butter with prosciutto. I used a LBV to lend it a fruity touch and this mixed with ground figs and real butter made delicious tea sandwiches. I LOVE poaced fruit and will try your suggestion. I like Zin too and that will be an option as well. Thanks for sharing.

Regards, Todd

 

[boboakalfb]

Bob, that sounds fantastic. About 2-3 times a year I put on an afternoon tea for the ladies of the family. I always try to come up with something special for the victuals and last year found this great sandwich recipe for a port/fig butter with prosciutto. I used a LBV to lend it a fruity touch and this mixed with ground figs and real butter made delicious tea sandwiches. I LOVE poaced fruit and will try your suggestion. I like Zin too and that will be an option as well. Thanks for sharing.

Regards, Todd

Another thing to try if you are a fan of blue cheese is to take halved peaches and grill them until they are soft. Put blue cheese in the pit area and drizzle with honey...very tasty.

 

[AACJ]

I buy 2 buck Chuck by the case load when we visit Northern Virginia, at roughly 2 bucks a bottle, I can still drink it within a year, hell, a case is gone in a few weeks.

When we go to Costco, we usually pick up a 1.5 litre bottle of Conche Toro Cab/Merlot for 6.99. What most people don't know is the older bottles are on the bottom of the stack, so I just take a newer one and put it in the older bottles place. So I get a nice, aged dusty bottle that's at least 5 years old.

My favorite is a 1994 Napa Ridge Cab, which I cannot find anymore.

I would actually agree that it is possible to find really good wines in the $4-6 range, but it's not always as easy as it should be. The vast majority of stuff in that range is simple swill, but there are some gems (and all too often they vary so much from year to year that you can't even just find your brand and stay with it).

The biggest issue with the REALLY cheap stuff is that it is almost never made to, or capable of, ageing. They are usually made to be consumed within a year or two of release, and so are really missing some of the taste componants of great wines that are also meant to age. MY OPINION is that you can get very good and really cheap wine, but it is not really in the same league as a $12 wine that is also made for a bit of ageing. There's nothing wrong with that, and I drink my share of non-ageworthy wines, but they really are two different things. A Cab made in vast quantities to be drinkable upon release, might be very good, but it will NEVER be in the same ballpark as a slightly more robust cab meant to sit for five years.

Andre

 

[ouch]

Nobody liked my comment about the great Sauterne Gillette Creme de Tete. I'm so disappointed.

 

[moses]

I think a great everyday budget port is "Benjamin Australian Tawny" it's about 12 bucks.

Couple of other really good Aussie Tawnys"

Hardy's Wisker's Blake. At about 17, it is a fantastic value, on some really really good stuff just loaded with flavor. If you don't believe me, I remember it getting a 94 or maybe higher a few years back from Parker.

Rosemount Old Benson. A little more expensive at around $30-35 for a 500, but pretty fantastic stuff.

 

[BigJ]

I love a good French Rose' in the summertime.

+1. The French take rose seriously. We also drink some from Spain (if based on Grenache). We avoid most New World roses as these are generally afterthoughts. YMMV of course as there is no arguing with taste.

 

[BigJ]

With the sole exception that it is still possible to get a world class wine for four dollars, the above is some of the best advice you'll ever read anywhere.

There are far too many connie-sewers who are nothing more than name droppers. It's easy to walk into a wine shop with a fat wallet and buy legendary first growths or popular new boutique wines. I wonder how many of those folks have ever tried:

Domaine de Trevaillon, Les Baux, Coteaux d Aix en Provance

Nicolas Joly’s lovely Savennières, Clos de la Coulée de Serrant, a wonderful chenin blanc

Muller-Catoir Haardter Mandelring Scheurebe Spatlese, a mind blowing effort from a virtually unknown grape

Domaine Peyre Rose, Coteaux du Languedoc, Clos des Cistes



The above are but two reds and two whites that are as fine as anything ever produced. No merlot. No chardonnay. No enormous pricetags. Just wonderful expressions of the vigneron's art.

If one had to spend a fortune to enjoy wine, I would recommend finding another hobby. Fortunately, it's not at all necessary.

I mostly AGREE. However, for us a large part of price depends on what we are drinking. Your recommendations are well priced for the quality. Problem is that my price point is generally much higher for a drinkable Pinot noir red than for a nice Southern French rose. But that is me.

i would also add that for the US the price:quality ratio is much more favorable for Washington (#2 producer) than for California (check wine spectator). YMMV of course.

 

[jazzguy]

Gotta love someone digging up a nine year old thread!

 

[BigJ]

I love a good French Rose' in the summertime.

Yes indeed! We have been drinking more and more French roses. As Julia Child said, "Rose goes with everything." I would add, "especially during the warm months!"

 

[langod]

Gotta love someone digging up a nine year old thread!

Well, this thread has been cellared and is only now coming into it's own. The tannins have softened and earthy, leathery notes are coming to the front.

 

[BigJ]

In general, I drink what I find during winery visits. Living on the west coast affords me the ability to have these visits often. My favs include:

California: Zinfandels and Syrahs from the north. My favorite is a small place called Amphora.

Oregon: Pinot of course. I have to say that I got into Pinots before they became ultra trendy. My wife has family that live a few miles from the Willamette Valley and visit every time I get up there.

Washington: My wife's brother and sister-in-law live near the Columbia river. I've been coming back with lots of new finds every time I visit. My favorites have been some of the Cabs and Syrahs. The value up there is great.

As far as whites go, I'm partial to Viognier and sometimes a Sauvignon Blanc.

I'll stick to Port for my dessert wine, but always have a Muscat around as well. I've been finding some very good Ports up in Washington.

I don't have room for a collection, so I buy to drink.

+1. We went to Walla Walla (WA) this spring-well worth the trip! Terrific reds that are 50% better value for the $ than CA (IMO).

 

[BigJ]

I love a good French Rose' in the summertime.

+1. Our go to warm weather choice. We prefer Provence (great value), Rhone, or Loire. But also good values in Spanish Grenache based blends.

 

[Columbus]

I'm doing Ohio Wines all Summer. There's a plethora of world class wineries around here, and it's amazing to taste local, in season fruits. Breitenbach's blackberry wine tastes like my childhood. I ate those very same berries in ice cream and pies.

Mon Ami, Breitenbach, Terra Cotta, Debonne, Lonz, Valley Vineyards, Buckeye Winery and so many more. It's a Summer project of mine to try as many as I can. Visits to the actual wineries to follow.

I stick to a middle of the road white and sweet reds. The berry wines are incredible this time of year. Mon Ami makes a killer pink Catawba and Rose.