I read or watch one review of the Razorok Game Changer and it says it is milder and smoother than the Edwin Jagger 3ONE6. I watch or read another review and it says that the 3ONE6 is milder and smoother. Then, I see a video claiming these are both good for beginners and others that say they are for advanced shavers. Help me to understand. I know that a lot of this is subjective, but this is really contradictory. What gives?
Why the contradiction?
- Thread starter Doc Dan
- Start date
They say YMMV for a reason. There is no "one truth" in wetshaving. If you read enough reviews of something (i.e. this razor), it will probably go in one direction, but different users will have different opinions. What you read tells me this: these razors are close to each other, they are smooth. They are not aggressive, but not too mild either. You'd hear these from the reviewers if they were.
You need to find a reviewer who reviewed a product (or two) that you already have and has the same thoughts. On the other hand, a reviewer with light stubble means probably nothing to you if you have coarse beard. For example many praise Voshkod blades for their smoothness, unfortunately it is not sharp enough for me, so for me it is almost pulling, thus cannot be smooth, YMMV.
Hope this helps.
P.s.: I would trust the opinion of the gentleman on this forum a 100x over any youtuber, even if I happen to like their videos
You need to find a reviewer who reviewed a product (or two) that you already have and has the same thoughts. On the other hand, a reviewer with light stubble means probably nothing to you if you have coarse beard. For example many praise Voshkod blades for their smoothness, unfortunately it is not sharp enough for me, so for me it is almost pulling, thus cannot be smooth, YMMV.
Hope this helps.
P.s.: I would trust the opinion of the gentleman on this forum a 100x over any youtuber, even if I happen to like their videos
This topic pops up every now and then.
If you can try for yourself and return if not satisfied, don't hesitate. If not, then there is some bad news for you: there is little consensus on the definition of aggressiveness:
www.badgerandblade.com
Hopefully one day we will have a wiki with a magic formula which calculates suitable (hardware) choices for you. For now though, I wish you good luck!
If you can try for yourself and return if not satisfied, don't hesitate. If not, then there is some bad news for you: there is little consensus on the definition of aggressiveness:
DE razor geometry. A system for measuring aggressive razors.
I have been trying to wrap my head around DE razor geometry regarding aggressive and mild razors. I realize that there is a lot of emphasis on using blade gap to rate the aggressiveness or mildness of razors. Some razors even state their blade gap in the razors name. The razor lives in a three...
www.badgerandblade.com
Hopefully one day we will have a wiki with a magic formula which calculates suitable (hardware) choices for you. For now though, I wish you good luck!
It depends on which Game Changer you have in mind. I only have the .84 sb version and for me it's incredible smooth, easy, nimble and somewhat efficient. It's my favorite DE auto-pilot razor and I feel like I can do 10 passes with ease without getting cuts, nicks or irretate my skin. The only thing I don't like about it it's that it's not super efficient on my neck and getting BBS in a few spots is kinda tricky.
That being said, I have no idea how the .68 version works, but i'd assume to be much milder and inefficient compared to the .84. They also have oc versions as well as one called the ''Jaws''. They are probably not as smooth, but a bit more efficient compared to the solid bars, but that's just my guess.
A while ago someone on the forum reported that he finds the .84 sb to be quite rough and aggressive despite trying different angles and pressure so I guess it's not the same for everyone.
There are lots of variables which can impact your shave like skin and beard type as well as how good your technique and prep are and of course, it depends on the blades.
That being said, I have no idea how the .68 version works, but i'd assume to be much milder and inefficient compared to the .84. They also have oc versions as well as one called the ''Jaws''. They are probably not as smooth, but a bit more efficient compared to the solid bars, but that's just my guess.
A while ago someone on the forum reported that he finds the .84 sb to be quite rough and aggressive despite trying different angles and pressure so I guess it's not the same for everyone.
There are lots of variables which can impact your shave like skin and beard type as well as how good your technique and prep are and of course, it depends on the blades.
AimlessWanderer
Remember to forget me!
Everybody has their own favourites, and many want to "sell" the virtues of their favourites to others. In something so incredibly subjective as shaving, this can be both highly confusing... and sometimes competative.
Someone who likes a milder razor, might refer to another razor as aggressive, while defining their favourite as smooth. A fan on that other razor, might shift that language to efficiency, with the milder, smoother razor, being inefficient and unable to deliver close shaves.
Far too often, "Gentlemanly" can be used pervasively. Be that in shaving ("Gentlemanly" art of straight shaving), in dress sense, or whatever other life aspect. Folks can at times tag "gentlemanly" on to the way they do things, implying by default that it's somehow less gentlemanly to do it any other way. I got told in a thread, something to the effect that a gentleman would never be seen in hiking boots, unless out hillwalking. Nonsense! They're a practical and comfortable shoe, which suit my urban lifestyle far better than what alternatives may have been considered by that individual to be the "Gentlemanly" option.
That said, this forum sees WAY less of that kind of divisiveness than the wider 'net, and there is a far greater embrace (it goes well beyond tolerance) of different opinions and attitudes. And yes - sometimes attitudes and opinions will be direct mirror image contradictions of someone else's. Many hold the Gillette Silver Blue as the epitome of smoothness, whereas for me, it's like shaving with a rusty hack saw blade. I've encountered such contradictions on all the products I love and hate.
Here's the rub... we're both right!
There are so many subtle nuances in shaving (and in life), that these contradictions genuinely occur - and that's OK - or at least it should be. Whatever your favourites may turn out to be, there will be some here who agree, and others who think they're the worst thing they ever used. Often, the same person who agree with you on one thing, will be one of those who has a polar opposite opinion on another.
It's all good. Just take everything as an individual's opinion, and don't take ANYTHING as absolute truth... including this post from me
Someone who likes a milder razor, might refer to another razor as aggressive, while defining their favourite as smooth. A fan on that other razor, might shift that language to efficiency, with the milder, smoother razor, being inefficient and unable to deliver close shaves.
Far too often, "Gentlemanly" can be used pervasively. Be that in shaving ("Gentlemanly" art of straight shaving), in dress sense, or whatever other life aspect. Folks can at times tag "gentlemanly" on to the way they do things, implying by default that it's somehow less gentlemanly to do it any other way. I got told in a thread, something to the effect that a gentleman would never be seen in hiking boots, unless out hillwalking. Nonsense! They're a practical and comfortable shoe, which suit my urban lifestyle far better than what alternatives may have been considered by that individual to be the "Gentlemanly" option.
That said, this forum sees WAY less of that kind of divisiveness than the wider 'net, and there is a far greater embrace (it goes well beyond tolerance) of different opinions and attitudes. And yes - sometimes attitudes and opinions will be direct mirror image contradictions of someone else's. Many hold the Gillette Silver Blue as the epitome of smoothness, whereas for me, it's like shaving with a rusty hack saw blade. I've encountered such contradictions on all the products I love and hate.
Here's the rub... we're both right!
There are so many subtle nuances in shaving (and in life), that these contradictions genuinely occur - and that's OK - or at least it should be. Whatever your favourites may turn out to be, there will be some here who agree, and others who think they're the worst thing they ever used. Often, the same person who agree with you on one thing, will be one of those who has a polar opposite opinion on another.
It's all good. Just take everything as an individual's opinion, and don't take ANYTHING as absolute truth... including this post from me
I say this pretty frequently. I ought to put it in my signature.
You don't need knowledge to be a YouTube expert, you need a camera.
You don't need knowledge to be a YouTube expert, you need a camera.
Well said.
I will never understand why people watch shaving videos. I can’t think of anything less exciting that watching videos of dudes in front of a mirror shaving.
And who wears shirts while they shave anyways?
I also said before
For the life of me I cannot understand the attraction some guy in his bathroom shaving has with so many people.
There is no way to vet their expertise aside from them saying so.
There is no way to vet if they really like a product or are being compensated by a company.
There is no way to vet if they are trying to be helpful or are looking to monetize clicks.
I dare say there are people right here on this forum who have higher expertise levels than any shmo on YouTube.
If you see some knucklehead on YouTube shaving with a weed whacker and peanut butter, you can be sure there are people out there subscribing to his channel and singing the wonders of a peanut butter/ weed whacker shave.
It's better not to expect consensus in this area. That way, you won't be disappointed. It seems everybody has their favorites.
I'm not sure people simply watch videos for expertise. Many are looking for information to corroborate their experience or want to see a tool, soap or other product in action. Sometimes a more authentic use by a typical user is more meaningful and relevant than an endorsement by experts, who may be paid for their recommendation or have more esoteric criteria.
AimlessWanderer
Remember to forget me!
... and a desire to be noticed/recognised etc.
I can buy a camera, and have actually had requests to do a video version of The Wanderer's Guide, but I have zero desire to broadcast myself in the act of personal grooming.
There's some kind of need that those guys have, that I don't. I don't understand fully what that need is, nor feel incomplete without it, but there is a distinct psychological difference between them and me. I've performed on stage many times (acting and the occasional bit of comedy), but standing in my bathroom, shaving, is not something I want an audience for.
I've never owned a Game Changer, but do have the 3one6. I find the 3one6 super efficient and smooth....it's one of my top performers. Comfortable enough to use daily, shaves close enough to skip a day if I wanted to.
I had the GC with .68 and .84 baseplates.
It was a terrible razor (for me) and I sold it on BST.
The new owner loves it!
I found it not smooth at all, and I used good blades/soaps too.
Yet my ss Karve with #F (and sometimes #G) plate is smooth, my ss Timeless .95 OC is smooth (have the .68 plate too, but never use it), the ss Blackbird with both SB and OC plates was OK (not super smooth) but better than the GC.
My new Pearl Flexi on '6' is smooth.
So, as others have said...YMMV.
One mans meat is another mans poison.
It was a terrible razor (for me) and I sold it on BST.
The new owner loves it!
I found it not smooth at all, and I used good blades/soaps too.
Yet my ss Karve with #F (and sometimes #G) plate is smooth, my ss Timeless .95 OC is smooth (have the .68 plate too, but never use it), the ss Blackbird with both SB and OC plates was OK (not super smooth) but better than the GC.
My new Pearl Flexi on '6' is smooth.
So, as others have said...YMMV.
One mans meat is another mans poison.
You've done it now! This time next year there'll be a peanut butter soap and a weed whacker razor!
I also said before
For the life of me I cannot understand the attraction some guy in his bathroom shaving has with so many people.
There is no way to vet their expertise aside from them saying so.
There is no way to vet if they really like a product or are being compensated by a company.
There is no way to vet if they are trying to be helpful or are looking to monetize clicks.
I dare say there are people right here on this forum who have higher expertise levels than any shmo on YouTube.
If you see some knucklehead on YouTube shaving with a weed whacker and peanut butter, you can be sure there are people out there subscribing to his channel and singing the wonders of a peanut butter/ weed whacker shave.
Italian Barber (RazoRock manufacturer) has an "aggression chart" on its website:
www.italianbarber.com
You'd think that the manufacturer would have a good idea of how his own razors compare with each other. But you'll find people in this forum who disagree with those relative ratings, and there's no reason to doubt their honesty. It's worse when comparing razors across makers -- there's a live thread now, arguing whether a Muhle R89 is smoother than a Merkur 34c.
When someone says:
. . . "Your mileage may vary",
believe him. And when someone presents subjective opinions as facts, doubt him.
. Charles
RazoRock Razor Scale - The Bottom is the Mildest and The Top is the Mo – ItalianBarber
If you are looking for placement on the scale for the new RazoRock Superslant razors, please see below:L1, L1+, L1++, L1++OC - MILD-MEDIUM(L1 being the ...
You'd think that the manufacturer would have a good idea of how his own razors compare with each other. But you'll find people in this forum who disagree with those relative ratings, and there's no reason to doubt their honesty. It's worse when comparing razors across makers -- there's a live thread now, arguing whether a Muhle R89 is smoother than a Merkur 34c.
When someone says:
. . . "Your mileage may vary",
believe him. And when someone presents subjective opinions as facts, doubt him.
. Charles
I made my last purchase of a nice modern razor based on a consensus of views. Sure some did not like it for one reason or the other and had no use for the razor but the majority of owners loved it. When you get down to folks debating whether one favored razor beats another favored one, you will most likely be happy with either one.
Bingo. Answered your own question. Of course this place would be hugely boring if that was the answer to everything (here’s a secret….it is). We even made an acronym for it because we just can’t settle on “it’s subjective“ as the answer so we say “YMMV”. - Your Method May Vary.
Ummm...YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary.
Why the contradiction?
Because it’s the Internet and anyone can post his/her opinion, no matter how foolish it may be.
If I want to form an educated opinion about something that people give opinions about, I try to gather many, ignore the ones that have an obvious agenda (like selling their wares), filter out the outliers (praising into high heaven or condemning to hell) and try to get a feel for what most people whose comments I have read (and/or who seem to know what they are talking about) do agree on.
Works fairly well.
And YMMV?
I have no use for that tired expression, as I work on the assumption that everybody can only vouch for his own experience, never mine.
Hence YMMV is superfluous, as it is a given…
B.
Because it’s the Internet and anyone can post his/her opinion, no matter how foolish it may be.
If I want to form an educated opinion about something that people give opinions about, I try to gather many, ignore the ones that have an obvious agenda (like selling their wares), filter out the outliers (praising into high heaven or condemning to hell) and try to get a feel for what most people whose comments I have read (and/or who seem to know what they are talking about) do agree on.
Works fairly well.
And YMMV?
I have no use for that tired expression, as I work on the assumption that everybody can only vouch for his own experience, never mine.
Hence YMMV is superfluous, as it is a given…
B.
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It gives you an easy out. Hence it's popularity?YMMV is superfluous, as it is a given…
B.
Ummm that’s subjective
IMHO the advanced shaver term is funny and is kinda silly its shaving ? Sure some are mad at me now and like all forums ready to tell me how I am wrong oh well
Bottom line you just have to use a few things and know what you think of them and THEN if you read posts and you relate to that person view as they kinda think like you do about those items it helps when looking at others
Man blades are really all over the place big time !
And of course the soap the same way
oh well Bottom line you just have to use a few things and know what you think of them and THEN if you read posts and you relate to that person view as they kinda think like you do about those items it helps when looking at others
Man blades are really all over the place big time !
And of course the soap the same way
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The EJ 3ONE6 has a blade gap of ~1.35mm and negative blade exposure. The Game Changer comes in 0.68 and 0.84 blade gaps and I read the former is neutral blade exposure. If you use these razors at the design angle they will perform differently. But people use their razors at different angles so that is why you get such varied views.
Have a look at the Shave Wiki and especially blade angle; Blade Angle | Badger & Blade
You should also look at razor parameters; Safety Razor Parameters: Illustrated and Defined | Badger & Blade
The choice of blade also makes a difference, so another parameter to consider.
I would not reccomend the 3ONE6 to a novice but the Game Changer .68 would be a better choice, if you particularly want a stainless steel razor.
Cannot think of anything more controversial than what constitutes the perfect shave. That's why even shavers with "holy grail" razors always seem to be buying new stuff. (And why so many fine razors end up on BST.)
- Thread starter
- #14
Thanks! I told the guy at the shop that I really like my EJ DE89 and wanted something that smooth but more efficient. I wanted something adjustable, though. I was looking at the 6s, but he suggested the Game Changer 68. He sold me the Game Changer .68 along with an 84 head so now I have a razor that is somewhat adjustable.
- Thread starter
- #15
I appreciate all of the input. I took it all to heart. I talked to the guy at the local B&M shop and he talked me out of the 6s and 3ONE6. He sold me a Game Changer 68 with an 84 head thrown in. He said I'll be happier. Good on him. I'll let you all know how it goes when it arrives (I called him on the telephone and ordered).
The Game Changer 68 and 84 are fantastic razors to help you dial in your preferences.
Did you get the SB or OC plates?
As incredibly handsome as my mother and myself think I am, I STILL have no desire to perform with a razor in front of a camera, with or without a shirt.
And the Werld has Thanked me!!!
- Thread starter
- #18
I got the solid. I don't think I need an open. I get a good shave with my DE89, quite frankly, and only got this razor because I wanted something stainless and more durable. I am very happy with the DE89. I didn't know that RR makes the Mission, or I would have gotten that, instead, but I have no complaints. I really only wanted the 84 for those times when I let my face rest and go a few days without shaving. I prefer smooth over too aggressive. I can always make two or three passes if I need to.
My whiskers are very gray, highly coarse, grow in lots of different directions and generally a pain in the butt. My skin is not particularly sensitive and I shave every day.
I personally own the GC68 SB, GC84 SB, GC84 OC and GC84 JAWS. The GC84 SB is the one that remains in my Den (the razors I want readily available).
From your description, the GC68 SB will be an excellent daily driver with the GC84 SB available for multiple days of growth.
To the original comment re contradiction, I don't think it's so much a contradiction as it is a lack of consensus. Everybody's face, beard growth, and prep and shaving conditions are different. But perhaps most of all everybody's perception is different. And I suppose there's sometimes a bit of damage control that occurs in reviews where there are those who cannot let a superlative or a negative assessment stand without countering with an opposing view to temper the conversation.
That's great that you got both GC plates at the same time. The GC is a fantastic razor, I'm sure they'll both have their uses for you. Good luck in that journey, there are A LOT of variables to experiment with.
I originally ordered the .68P plate but got the .84P by mistake (they eventually made good and sent the .68) so started with the .84. I found much too aggressive and with too much blade feel for my liking. (besides, If I need that I already have a vintage open comb) It gave a close shave but left my face absolutely raw, which scared the crap out of me. Plus, it came with a bulldog handle which was just stupid heavy in my opinion, so I got a much lighter Muehl style handle (looks much classier too). When I got the .68 it was a much better fit, but I soon found that I had to work too much (3+ passes and a LOT of touchups) at getting the results I expected. So I decided to try the .84 again. After a bit of experimenting, mostly giving up the notion of shaving daily and allowing more growth between shaves (my beard seems to be on a 36 hour cycle anyway), I was able to transition over to the .84 (3 passes with virtually no touchups). Two days between shaves seems to have done the trick.
Everyone’s skin, beard, prep, nervous system is different! That’s for sure! 
