What's new

Why strop so many times?

steveclarkus

Goose Poop Connoisseur
Particle shape (and maybe friability/breakdown) does make a difference though, right? (otherwise why would it cut "faster" at all). In my experience diamonds cut deeper than chrome or iron in a similar particle size, and leave deeper scratches.
Having said that, I suspect some of the cheaper CroX and IroX paste sold is actually just diamonds in the appropriate particle size associated with that paste, so there might not always be much of a difference there.
Having said that, lol, and as you say ("Diamond is...likely with more accurate particle size.") this comes from a discussion of Dovo branded pastes from another forum "...the green's maximum particle size of steelcutter (is) about 6 microns. They're not the most exact mediums...".
I just read an interesting article in “STRAZORS” regarding particle size rating and even diamond particle is rated on an average. That was a little too deep in the weeds for me. I’ve been using .1u CBN for daily maintenance for a few weeks an so far haven’t detected any noticeable difference.
Fair enough - I was particularly interested in your experience regarding micro chips because you are clearly maintaining your razors in this way consistently over a long period of time and it's working so well. I think you also have gold dollars don't you, which can be chippy.

Why I ask is because I've been alarmed by micro chips cropping up on my razors in the past. Once might have been caused by diamond paste, but I think that was because it was stropped on suede.

I only use the pasted balsa with stainless blades because I don't like the feel of the method edges on my other razors. The stainless doesn't seem to chip.

I wonder if the fact that the diamond is embedded in a perfectly flattened surface prevents chipping or whether the repeated stropping polishes out any chips.

If you ever do start checking them under 60x magnification then I would be very interested in what you find.
I forgot to mention the Gold Dollars. I have a couple left but gave most away. Haven’t used on in a while though mainly because I prefer smaller and lighter blades. I just checked one under 60x and the edge looked good.
 

steveclarkus

Goose Poop Connoisseur
Ha - thank you for looking. Even if you aren't experimenting your consistent application of the method is important experience for the community.

I think this :

The balsa grain is open enough enabling the diamond particles to sit in the grain with their little points sticking up so they don’t roll around...

Is probably the nub of it.
I believe that is @Slash McCoy opinion as well.
 

kelbro

Alfred Spatchcock
I've used the method on a couple of razors. Looking at the edges under 42x after 30+ shaves , no micro chips but definite micro-bevels. They shave well.
 
.5 micron is .5 micron regardless of the abrasive used. In achieving the same degree of sharpness, exactly the same amount of material is removed. Diamond is just faster and likely with more accurate particle size. The .1u is what, for some reason, removes the harshness of the prior .5u and .25u. In any case, the amount of steel removed at this level of polish is too minimal to even consider in any practical sense.
As far as particle size is concerned, .5um is in fact .5um. However, the mediums are completely different and behave differently. Diamond is very aggressive and much more prone to cause micro chipping than CBN and .5um CrOx is completely different in feel than both diamond and CBN. I’ve used all of it and hands down CBN produces a much smoother edge than diamond and CrOx.
 
As far as particle size is concerned, .5um is in fact .5um. However, the mediums are completely different and behave differently. Diamond is very aggressive and much more prone to cause micro chipping than CBN and .5um CrOx is completely different in feel than both diamond and CBN. I’ve used all of it and hands down CBN produces a much smoother edge than diamond and CrOx.

I found on my own that I prefer the feel of CrOx2 over diamond. Have not tried CBN.
 
I found on my own that I prefer the feel of CrOx2 over diamond. Have not tried CBN.
If you like the whole film/pasted balsa thing and prefer CrOx, CBN is honestly worth a shot. I used to use .1um CBN on nanocloth and the edge was so sharp and smooth it really did impress me. My only issue is that I find that edges such as this are beyond unforgiving and not skin friendly at all. It was a fun experiment but of the few stones I have, I get shaves that are just as close and the comfort and skin kindness can’t be beat.
 
If you like the whole film/pasted balsa thing and prefer CrOx, CBN is honestly worth a shot. I used to use .1um CBN on nanocloth and the edge was so sharp and smooth it really did impress me. My only issue is that I find that edges such as this are beyond unforgiving and not skin friendly at all. It was a fun experiment but of the few stones I have, I get shaves that are just as close and the comfort and skin kindness can’t be beat.
Fun to experiment I bet.
 
The Chromox we use is Chromium(III)Oxide - CR2O3.

And, like anything, there are many many many variants upon that theme...

For me - Crox and CBN are both perferable to any type of diamond powder/spray/paste/etc. Submicron and Nanoparticle edges are certainly fun to mess with but they don't shave me any closer, better, etc.
My shaves with those edges don't seem to last as long either. Go figure.
Very definitely, my skin type prefers edges off natural stones. But occasionally I do ramp up an edge to ludicrous speed on a
nano powder, just for funzies.


 

steveclarkus

Goose Poop Connoisseur
As far as particle size is concerned, .5um is in fact .5um. However, the mediums are completely different and behave differently. Diamond is very aggressive and much more prone to cause micro chipping than CBN and .5um CrOx is completely different in feel than both diamond and CBN. I’ve used all of it and hands down CBN produces a much smoother edge than diamond and CrOx.
I've been using CBN for finishing and daily maintenance for two months now and if there is a difference, which there may be, it is very subtle. I intend to keep using it until I come to some kind of conclusion - I hope. Regarding micro chipping, I've never found that to be a problem with either. Both .1u diamond and .1u CBN produce very sharp but comfortable edges IMO.
 
As far as particle size is concerned, .5um is in fact .5um. However, the mediums are completely different and behave differently. Diamond is very aggressive and much more prone to cause micro chipping than CBN and .5um CrOx is completely different in feel than both diamond and CBN. I’ve used all of it and hands down CBN produces a much smoother edge than diamond and CrOx.
+1
 
The Chromox we use is Chromium(III)Oxide - CR2O3.

And, like anything, there are many many many variants upon that theme...

For me - Crox and CBN are both perferable to any type of diamond powder/spray/paste/etc. Submicron and Nanoparticle edges are certainly fun to mess with but they don't shave me any closer, better, etc.
My shaves with those edges don't seem to last as long either. Go figure.
Very definitely, my skin type prefers edges off natural stones. But occasionally I do ramp up an edge to ludicrous speed on a
nano powder, just for funzies.


+1

Diamond crystals are octahedral (like two pyramids back to back) so they have very pointed tips that make them very aggressive when honing and polishing. That can be a good thing, but it can also be a bad thing is the steel is subject to microchipping. Chromium oxide is hexahedral and also not nearly as hard as diamond (8 on the Moh's scale). While Cubic Boron Nitride is nearly as hard as diamond, the cubic shape makes it less aggressive and less likely to microchip the edge.

When using diamond pastes and sprays for stropping, it is best to use some type of porous medium like balsa so the diamond crystals get embedded in the substrate with only a portion sticking up to contact the steel. Use the diamond spray or paste sparingly. Slash McCoy is a huge proponent of using diamond on balsa.

How To Use a Pasted Balsa Strop

However, as Gamma has noted, diamond is not the only game in town. Experiment and find out which works best for your blades. Personally, I get great edges using 0.5 micron CBN followed by 0.25 micron and 0.125 micron CBN, but you should also get great edges using Slash McCoy's method.
 
Mono diamond particles can have many different shapes actually, and any batch can be a mixed bag of tricks. That's part of my issue with the substance actually, and it's possibly partly why I dislike using it so much.

Microchipping in steel is always a concern, it depends on the extent of the distraction, and possibly how sensitive one's face is I suppose. But the bigger factors are the wear and deformation mechanisms that diamond particles impart on steel. That's another discusion for another day though.

I would not go so far as to say anyone's experiences with any abrasive compound or any method of use should or would be good/great/bad/horrible or whatever. There are a ton of factors involved, and everyone is different. What I find to be a great edge might not always translate to what others like and vice versa.

Personally, I find diamond edges to be awful - always have, no matter what method I derive them from. I don't even have any here anymore, I tossed the lot of it. But some people like to use diamonds, so there's that.

I'd also guess that some people haven't experienced too many other nano-particle edges, or maybe even too many edges from any other sources, so they don't have many reference points. A larger sample size could possibly turn what 'seems' to be good might into what seems to be 'meh' or worse if they were to try something else.
 
Sorry to belabor the obvious, but what is CBN? Edit: there it is, written just above (post #53), cubic boron nitride.

For the green, red, and black crayon pastes, I like to sand vegetable-tanned leather with 180x garnet sandpaper and then charge it with the paste on the thumb pad or heel of the palm. Seems to load pretty evenly that way. With the ferric oxide pigments, I too like to suspend them in oil--olive oil being the way I was shown to do this, again with vegetable-tanned leather sanded to give the surface a bit of tooth.

To return to the original topic of "so many laps," I want to say that I have been sticking with my friend's counsel to start out with 2-3 laterally-biassed laps with a wee bit of pressure followed by just a few up-and-down laps with no pressure, using a small, felt-lined paddle strop, and my razor's edge seems to be holding up quite well. Palm-stropping on the heel of the palm is a nice complement as needed.
 
Last edited:
Here's a follow-up question. How is that we are generally stropping before and/or after each shave with a straight razor, whereas in using a shavette replaceable blade we might get five-seven shaves without stropping at all?
 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
Here's a follow-up question. How is that we are generally stropping before and/or after each shave with a straight razor, whereas in using a shavette replaceable blade we might get five-seven shaves without stropping at all?

Stropping each use means it only needs a periodic touch up rather than resetting the bevel to correct heavier edge damage. It doesn't matter with a shavette blade, cos we just chuck it away
 
Stropping each use means it only needs a periodic touch up rather than resetting the bevel to correct heavier edge damage. It doesn't matter with a shavette blade, cos we just chuck it away

Thanks. That's sort of what I was thinking, so it's good to have confirmation of this. By way of analogy, perhaps the straight razor edge could endure, say, 4-7 shaving sessions without stropping, and then be brought back either by stropping or a touch-up as needed.
 
I have taken a freshly honed blade and have done laps from 100 down to 25 and to be perfectly honest my face can’t tell or feel the difference so I just do 25/25 linen/leather or the pre shave and 10/10 on post and my edges seem to be holding up fine
 
I have taken a freshly honed blade and have done laps from 100 down to 25 and to be perfectly honest my face can’t tell or feel the difference so I just do 25/25 linen/leather or the pre shave and 10/10 on post and my edges seem to be holding up fine

The videos I've watched showing professionals, they never strop as much as members say they do here and they use short strokes also.

I strop for feel. Over time I have learned how the blade will perform by doing a thumb test on the blade. While I am still in a steep learning mode, there is a buttery smooth sharp I like which comes from the pasted balsa followed my horsehide. It's my evolving opinion that each of use has to decide what's shave ready.
 
Top Bottom