Having used Ballistol with water makes me curious about trying some agricultural crop oil and water.
Crop oil is also water soluble and is a very high quality surfactant.
Crop oil is also water soluble and is a very high quality surfactant.
why not engine oil?
- Thread starter kohalajohn
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Crop oil would be a new one for me, I’ll have to ask the google what’s in there... surfactants with water can be great in that you can dial in the feel you want to have while honing for your specific technique very easily and very cheaply. Mixing water up is second nature to us and generally doesn’t require any special storage or cleanup. The only big drawback is you don’t get the built in rust prevention of honing with straight oils or spirits. It can be really nice sometimes (especially with tools) to just hone and go straight from the stone into longer term storage or the back of the line in a razor rotation and not give any thought to rust.
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- #63
I wasn't aware that mixing water in the Ballistol would impair the anti rust properties of Ballistol. I had thought that since the surfactant properties of the Ballistol caused the mineral oil and the water to truly mix, that even diluted, you were still "oiling" the metal and therefore protecting it from rust.
But more discussion welcomed.
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- #64
The Oil That Could
"Ballistol can even be used to protect wet firearms and gear because the oil doesn’t cover water. Instead, it mixes with the water and allows it to evaporate, leaving the oil behind."
"Ballistol can even be used to protect wet firearms and gear because the oil doesn’t cover water. Instead, it mixes with the water and allows it to evaporate, leaving the oil behind."
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- #66
Well, it's mineral oil as the main ingredient. I understand that that scent is the natural surfactant, the ingredient that allows the mineral oil to mix with water. And it's important, more than just a scent. Oil by itself can lay on top of water, so the water stays in contact with the metal. By mixing, it allows the water to evaporate away, which is better.
I suspect the reason the smell is like liquirice, is that it is part of that plant family. You know how it turns white with water? The chemists actually call that the ouzo effect, as ouzo or pernod do the same thing. There's a picture of a plant on the Ballistol bottle. I"ll bet that's the plant. Why else would an oil bottle have a picture of a plant on it?
I could certainly use just mineral oil for honing. But I'd have to use a bit more pressure, as it would be thicker than the Ballisol/ water mix. I can't mix dilute mineral oil with water.
I suspect the reason the smell is like liquirice, is that it is part of that plant family. You know how it turns white with water? The chemists actually call that the ouzo effect, as ouzo or pernod do the same thing. There's a picture of a plant on the Ballistol bottle. I"ll bet that's the plant. Why else would an oil bottle have a picture of a plant on it?
I could certainly use just mineral oil for honing. But I'd have to use a bit more pressure, as it would be thicker than the Ballisol/ water mix. I can't mix dilute mineral oil with water.
Ballistol was invented for the prussian army as a firearms oil. You can get it with or without scent. Without it is for the food industry. The Oleic Acid and the alcohols are just detergents, so you can mix it with water the scent is just a perfume. You could mix mineral oil with some alcohol to get the same effect just much cheaper.
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- #69
I have a bit of mineral oil and will try it out on my ark. I expect it will work fine. And it is a bit cheaper than Ballistol. I don't think I'll bother diluting it.
I think I'll be staying with Ballistol for honing, just because I always have it around, for other uses.
Ballistol
I think I'll be staying with Ballistol for honing, just because I always have it around, for other uses.
Ballistol
This thread got me curious enough to do some very poorly controlled experiments regarding solubility and miscibility of some oil mixtures. WD 40 appears to be miscible with propylene glycol, but then oddly that combo is not mixable with water. I expected the propylene glycol to act as an emulsifier. Olive oil is not soluble with propylene glycol, but it is miscible in ethanol, and then added water forms an emulsion.
WD-40 was designed as a water displacement product (thus the WD). It was not designed as a lubricant, although many of us use it that way. That is why it does not readily mix with water, even when other emulsifiers are used.
In the old days of cars that had points and condensers, I always kept a can of WD 40 around in case they got wet. Even if you had just steam cleaned your engine and it was soaking wet, just pop the distributor cap, spray some WD 40 on every thing and, BAM, started right up every time!
So yeah, WD 40 doesn't mix with water, it more or less repels it..... I just wonder what happened to the other 39 formulations?
prof
Thanks Ray. I was kind of hoping that you might chime in.
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- #74
I think if you have fun mixing up your own, have at it and have fun. This is a hobby.
But I'm thinking that for me, mixing up mineral oil and alcohol to dilute it down, and then using a detergent to wash it off when you are done, is a lot like recreating Ballistol.
I am reminded of a couple I know who worked for years perfecting their own bbq sauce. It was really good. We all enjoyed it. And then one day someone happened to bring over a bottle of Bullseye BBQ sauce and they realized that's what they had recreated.
But I'm thinking that for me, mixing up mineral oil and alcohol to dilute it down, and then using a detergent to wash it off when you are done, is a lot like recreating Ballistol.
I am reminded of a couple I know who worked for years perfecting their own bbq sauce. It was really good. We all enjoyed it. And then one day someone happened to bring over a bottle of Bullseye BBQ sauce and they realized that's what they had recreated.
I agree that there is not much economy in making your own, but it is kind of interesting. Someday someone will recreate WD40. Certainly not worth what it would take to do that at $22/ gallon, but .....
I make my own ferric chloride. Surely not worth the time, but what I learned in the process has been invaluable.
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- #76
I have a place in hawaii with farm equipment. It's humid and the air has salt content.
I need to have a bulk amount of lubricant to protect large amounts of metal against rust. But small spray bottles of wd40 are prohibitively expensive.
I buy the wd40 in the large gallon cans. I save the used engine oil from the various machines, and store it in a five gallon pail.
I mix half wd40 and half used engine oil in a one liter spray bottle.
I liberally spray it over everything. lawnmowers, chainsaws, cement mixers, everything.
works great and is super cheap. the wd40 gets into the tiny crevices. and pushes out water. the heavy dirty oil has staying power and clings to surfaces for ages.
maybe I've invented the next iteration, Wd41.
aloha
I need to have a bulk amount of lubricant to protect large amounts of metal against rust. But small spray bottles of wd40 are prohibitively expensive.
I buy the wd40 in the large gallon cans. I save the used engine oil from the various machines, and store it in a five gallon pail.
I mix half wd40 and half used engine oil in a one liter spray bottle.
I liberally spray it over everything. lawnmowers, chainsaws, cement mixers, everything.
works great and is super cheap. the wd40 gets into the tiny crevices. and pushes out water. the heavy dirty oil has staying power and clings to surfaces for ages.
maybe I've invented the next iteration, Wd41.
aloha
