why not engine oil?

[Namkcakram]

It’s a solid choice. A lot of pro type razor Honers pay the money for ballistol or other name brand honing solutions.

My oil/alcohol blend is because I spend way more time like @Chandu honing chisels and plane irons than I spend on razors so I want to use tool, hone tool, toss in tool box- and never stop to think about rust prevention. I have a separate leather “strop”(chunk of leather) there that I don’t care about getting oil all over, so far so good there actually.

I also should mention just in case anyone tries them that REAL traditional Japanese Camellia oil can go rancid though I’ve used it and never experienced it, and Dr Bronners will thicken to a film if you leave it to dry on a stone. Both are still really easy to clean up though.

 

[RayClem]

I don’t know why I keep responding to oil threads, I’m a chemical engineer and people still want to pick arguments about silly points out of a whole info dump, but here goes...

Thanks Namkcakram. I too am a chemical engineer, now retired. Having similar input from two engineers reinforces the validity of our position. Motor oil is for internal combustion engines, not for honing.

 

[kohalajohn]

Another advantage of Ballistol is that you can choose how thick to make the mixture. Thin, like 5 parts water to one part Ballisol and it will cut faster. Thick, and it will take a bit longer, but you may get a bit sharper. I am now mixing about twice as much water as Ballistol

Mind you, you can also just lighten pressure and get the same thing as having thick oil.

 

[Namkcakram]

Oh yeah pressure and technique changes really dwarf the oil viscosity differences. The oil choice really comes down to what you feel let’s you produce consistently good edges. I sort of like the feeling of putting down thicker oil and almost having to push and slice through it a bit. I think it gives stronger feedback when you’re on light pressure strokes at the end.

If you’re really curious you can try engine oil once or twice and probably not really hurt anything, but the wiser move would be find something with the same viscosity at room temp cause you won’t be missing out on anything else at that point.

 

[Namkcakram]

Thanks Namkcakram. I too am a chemical engineer, now retired. Having similar input from two engineers reinforces the validity of our position. Motor oil is for internal combustion engines, not for honing.

Man there aren’t too many of us online anywhere, and especially absent from the actual engine oil forums...

We’ve really specialized our fluids so much in the last 20yrs I think it would be incredibly tough to take a purpose made oil from someplace else and beat the actual honing fluids out there like hone-rite, ballistol, any Smith/Norton/Dans...

 

[Chandu]

My wood carving teacher swore on extra virgin olive oil and it works fine, but you need to make sure you clean the stone off well. I've used Norton's, Dans, 3 in 1, Singer sewing machine oil. I've never tried the Ballistol. Looks like good stuff, but spendy. One petroleum product I have heard some use is Marvel Mystery Oil. Personally I don't wear gloves while sharpening and really don't want to be touching things intended for cars, so I never tried it.

 

[Namkcakram]

Well I’m sure you know who Frank Klausz is... he honed for decades on Arkansas and carborundum stones with Kerosene. I thought that was an awfully odd choice, a heavy solvent... plenty of old stones come with paperwork recommending Kerosene to clean them off periodically, but I’ve never seen anything else recommending kerosene as the oil.

Obviously Frank does well enough with his tools that I’m not about to tell him all the ways he’s doing it wrong.

I think Marvel is a pretty generic mineral oil honestly, but I can’t remember the lab analysis data off the top of my head...

If you want to try the top of the viscosity spectrum That Lucas oil stabilizer is basically just pure 100+ weight oil with no useful additives or viscosity index improvers. If you’re putting it in your car you can go ahead and stop that now.

I’m just slinging terrible ideas now, I’m done detailing the thread.

 

[RayClem]

My wood carving teacher swore on extra virgin olive oil and it works fine,

In the areas of the world where olive trees grow prolifically, it was common to soak hones such as the Creatan stone (Turkish Oilstone) in olive oil. However, olive oil is high in oleic acid, a mono-saturated fatty acid that is subject to oxidation. Although, not at reactive as a poly-unsaturated fatty acids, eventually it will turn rancid. Camelia oil is also high in unsaturated acids, so it will have a similar problem. Mineral oil and saturated fatty acids are less subject to this issue. Thus, virgin coconut oil, which is high in saturated fatty acids, might be a more suitable choice. However, it does have a higher viscosity than olive oil as many saturated fats are solid at room temperature. Thus, light mineral oil based products might be the best option overall.

 

[RayClem]

Well I’m sure you know who Frank Klausz is... he honed for decades on Arkansas and carborundum stones with Kerosene. I thought that was an awfully odd choice, a heavy solvent... plenty of old stones come with paperwork recommending Kerosene to clean them off periodically, but I’ve never seen anything else recommending kerosene as the oil.

Kerosene was once popular for many uses. It was even a common de-foamer for industrial use, but is no longer used for that purpose. Accidental skin exposure to kerosene is unlikely to cause any significant harm, but long-term exposure can cause dermatitis and is know to cause skin cancer in lab animals. Thus, there may be better options for honing.

 

[Chandu]

In the areas of the world where olive trees grow prolifically, it was common to soak hones such as the Creatan stone (Turkish Oilstone) in olive oil.

Yup, my carving instructor is from Crete. So olive oil IS the thing.

 

[Twelvefret]

I like the Thuringian and Coticule are water stones. Grew up using oil stones for various sharping jobs, but wouldn’t want it on my skin.

 

[Namkcakram]

In the areas of the world where olive trees grow prolifically, it was common to soak hones such as the Creatan stone (Turkish Oilstone) in olive oil. However, olive oil is high in oleic acid, a mono-saturated fatty acid that is subject to oxidation. Although, not at reactive as a poly-unsaturated fatty acids, eventually it will turn rancid. Camelia oil is also high in unsaturated acids, so it will have a similar problem. Mineral oil and saturated fatty acids are less subject to this issue. Thus, virgin coconut oil, which is high in saturated fatty acids, might be a more suitable choice. However, it does have a higher viscosity than olive oil as many saturated fats are solid at room temperature. Thus, light mineral oil based products might be the best option overall.

I have never considered honing over coconut oil, but that could be more than thick enough to put you on par with the old barber hone lather finishing trick.

I mention camellia oil because in America camellia oil isn’t really camellia oil... it’s a very light mineral oil in a nice bottle usually with nice scent added. This imposter American camellia works great for honing and rust prevention. It’s whats for sale at places like woodcraft or on Amazon next to their “hand made” Japanese chisels .

 

[Dilbone]

Baby oil is my go to oil now. It's thinner than pharm mineral oil, smells pretty good, and allows me to see the undercut pretty well without being so thin that it runs all over the place. I know we're talking arki's here but final 30-50 laps with baby oil on a coti is a dreamy edge for me. Last night I just did a touch up with 3 razors, 30 laps on plain water, dried off stone, added 5 drips of baby oil, 30-40super light laps for each razor adding an additional drip or 2 between razors, and they are back to their super keen but ultra smooth selves.

I've tried a whole lot of oils, mixes, and products and regular ol' johnson & johnson baby oil is THE one for me.

When I'm done I just wipe the excess off with a napkin and wash it with a drop of dish liquid. Easy peasy.

 

[Chandu]

I've actually used vaseline on diamond (when I had diamond hones) to give a little cushion to the blade so the diamond wouldn't tear them up so badly. It did help a little, but I ended up selling my plates. At the low grits, Silicon carbide is much faster and over 600 grit, they left thin, DEEP scratches that were much harder to get rid of then if I just switched to a different media after the 600 grit plate. In other words I found the 1200 and higher plates essentially worse than a 600 for the edges I was after.

 

[Twelvefret]

I've actually used vaseline on diamond (when I had diamond hones) to give a little cushion to the blade so the diamond wouldn't tear them up so badly. It did help a little, but I ended up selling my plates. At the low grits, Silicon carbide is much faster and over 600 grit, they left thin, DEEP scratches that were much harder to get rid of then if I just switched to a different media after the 600 grit plate. In other words I found the 1200 and higher plates essentially worse than a 600 for the edges I was after.

FYI, 30 micron film is 600 grit and does not scratch noticeably.

 

[Chandu]

FYI, 30 micron film is 600 grit and does not scratch noticeably.

Films are completely different animals than the hones. I think the hones lack the density and even particle size of the films. In other words, if they made hones with the quality of the film, I might own some.

I don't like films because I like to use push strokes for sharpening at times or parallel to the edge strokes and both are fairly easy to create a cut in the film. Pull strokes are fine and if you are essentially stropping with something like a 1 um film, then all fine and good. Depending on the steel, at larger grits, pull strokes lead nicely to some insane foil burrs.

 

[Twelvefret]

Films are completely different animals than the hones. I think the hones lack the density and even particle size of the films. In other words, if they made hones with the quality of the film, I might own some.

I don't like films because I like to use push strokes for sharpening at times or parallel to the edge strokes and both are fairly easy to create a cut in the film. Pull strokes are fine and if you are essentially stropping with something like a 1 um film, then all fine and good. Depending on the steel, at larger grits, pull strokes lead nicely to some insane foil burrs.

I use push pull with films. Never cut a film.

 

[Chandu]

I use push pull with films. Never cut a film.

Knives aren't a problem for me but gouges can easily cut a film due to the curved edge and very small surface in contact with the film.

 

[Twelvefret]

Knives aren't a problem for me but gouges can easily cut a film due to the curved edge and very small surface in contact with the film.

View attachment 980733

Well, with gouges it’s a different story

 

[steveclarkus]

It doesn't matter whether or not motor oil is "good for the skin" or not. You aren't going to strop a razor dripping with oil. You are going to wipe it clean out of concern for the strop, if nothing else. Not an issue. It would have to be incredibly toxic for the few remaining molecules of oil on a wiped blade to have any effect on the human body.

As for the viscosity, ordinary motor oil is a good bit thicker than most honing oils. That isn't a dealbreaker, though. Viscosity of honing oil is just another variable. There is no "correct" viscosity. Thinner oil will allow a stone to cut more aggressively. Thicker oil will allow the same stone to cut less aggressively. Thinner = faster. Thicker = (potentially) sharper. Not a big deal, though. Use what you like. Use what you got. Use whatever blows your skirt up. Maybe give vegetable based oils a miss though, due to oxidation concerns. They can form a gummy coating on stuff. Some worse than others.

Vegetable oils are also very unhealthy if consumed. Crisco was originally a lubricant used in submarines. Don’t eat it.