Why no framebacks?

[strop]

I recently got the Hairop frameback from Martin. Advertised as NOS, likely for barber's use, it shaves like a dream. Lightweight, and very balanced, it feels like a hollow ground razor on the face.

As opposed to all the pictures of vintage framebacks, the frame becomes part of the tang, with the cutting steel inserted into that, instead of the blade and tang being one piece and wrapped with a frame.

I'm a woodworker. Metalworking is like voodoo to me, but for modern, custom makers, this seems to me to be a much easier way to make a razor, and would allow a "full hollow" instead of the more commonly seen 1/4 or 1/2 hollow. What am I missing?

 

[MileMarker60]

It's easier said then done... There are a few thing you have to think about.
A couple are the thickness / type cutting steel and how to joint the 2.
I don't know and haven't seen how the Japanese frame backs are assembled but my guess is it's pressed together.
Thats not really a option for custom makers, as I don't know anyone that would have the equipment to do it.
So assuming a custom maker doesn't have that equipment. The only other way to join them easily (if that can be said) is to solder them together.
At which point you have to consider the working range of the solder and the temper of the steel.
It can be done, I've done a few or you can check out Charlie Lewis. He seems to have it down pretty good

 

[Seraphim]

How do you cut the narrow slot for the blade?

How do you endure perpendicularity?

How do you bond them?



Seems simple/easy, but in reality I don't think it is...

 

[MileMarker60]

What I did was scribe the center line in the steel (spine & tang). Then rigged up the dremel in a vise to cut the groove.
Once I had it cut I did the rest of the shaping and finishing. Then I cut and shaped the blade, which I rigged up to a big magnet to hold against the grinder..
Once that was done, I HTed and tempered each piece. After that I put both piece in the kiln and once up to temp I used a low temp solder to join them together.

Only took 8-9 practice tries.....

 

[Slash McCoy]

What I did was scribe the center line in the steel (spine & tang). Then rigged up the dremel in a vise to cut the groove.
Once I had it cut I did the rest of the shaping and finishing. Then I cut and shaped the blade, which I rigged up to a big magnet to hold against the grinder..
Once that was done, I HTed and tempered each piece. After that I put both piece in the kiln and once up to temp I used a low temp solder to join them together.

Only took 8-9 practice tries.....

I thought tempering temperature for most tool steel for a level of hardness suitable for a razor is like 350 degrees? So wouldn't your kiln pull the temper? What temp does your low temp solder melt at, and do you think you get a good solder joint with plenty of strength? This sounds like a very interesting idea. I was thinking that mild steel pins driven through frame and blade, then peened out in a hole tapered on both ends, would privide a good solid lockup. The pins could be ground down flush, with the tapered holes.

 

[Debrushman]

Everything is easy, when you know how to do it.

 

[MileMarker60]

I thought tempering temperature for most tool steel for a level of hardness suitable for a razor is like 350 degrees? So wouldn't your kiln pull the temper? What temp does your low temp solder melt at, and do you think you get a good solder joint with plenty of strength? This sounds like a very interesting idea. I was thinking that mild steel pins driven through frame and blade, then peened out in a hole tapered on both ends, would privide a good solid lockup. The pins could be ground down flush, with the tapered holes.

Most high carbon steels used for razor are tempered at around 400
If you look long enough you can find solder that melts at a lower temp. As for strength of the joint. My test was to drop a test piece on the concrete floor

 

[Slash McCoy]

Most high carbon steels used for razor are tempered at around 400
If you look long enough you can find solder that melts at a lower temp. As for strength of the joint. My test was to drop a test piece on the concrete floor

Sounds like a conclusive test to me. Thanks for the info.

 

[strop]

I figured it was harder than it sounded!

There are some custom back saw makers that slot the back then insert the stee, blade, though it is thicker than the steel in this razor. Some use epoxy and others pin and peen. I just didn't know if it could be applied to razors and the type/temper steel needed for these.

Thanks for the info.

 

[cb91710]

Alternative: Braze (basically high temp soldering), which rolls up closer to 1200, then temper after they are joined and pray it doesn't warp during HT.

 

[ladykate]

I figured it was harder than it sounded!

There are some custom back saw makers that slot the back then insert the stee, blade, though it is thicker than the steel in this razor. Some use epoxy and others pin and peen. I just didn't know if it could be applied to razors and the type/temper steel needed for these.

Thanks for the info.

I was goofing off trying to make a spine for a knife blade - to convert it to a Kamisori-like object. I wanted the spine to ease the honing issues. The blade was stainless so I used stainless tubing, slit it similar to the way it was described for the carbon steel frame-back and then CA/epoxy glued it in place. It works very well. However, it doesn't look very good.

 

[McShaverson]

I was goofing off trying to make a spine for a knife blade - to convert it to a Kamisori-like object. I wanted the spine to ease the honing issues. The blade was stainless so I used stainless tubing, slit it similar to the way it was described for the carbon steel frame-back and then CA/epoxy glued it in place. It works very well. However, it doesn't look very good.

View attachment 247061

I had the same thought. Only, instead of CA, why not use JB weld? It's a lot stronger, essentially waterproof, and a gray metal like color.