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Why FBI and Police Returned to the 9mm

Esox

I didnt know
Staff member
Also keep in mind that even in Texas it is only 3% to 4% of the population that is licensed to carry a gun. So even where there is a so called "gun culture" is is not true that everyone is armed.

In addition, as in the incident in El Paso recently, a significant percentage of the people in the Walmart were likely Mexican citizens over for a day of shopping. By law they are all prevented from being armed so even if there were LTC holders in the crowd they would be an even smaller percentage than the statewide average.

I wouldnt have thought everyone was carrying but 4% is surprising. I would have thought maybe 20%, or even higher.

If something like happens here, and something similar did not that long ago, people stand around in stunned disbelief. Watch the people that come out from behind the van. They see whats happening but theres a disconnect between their eyes and their brain. They're not comprehending what they're seeing.


He didnt have a gun but its clear the officer does and is in a serious situation with someone highly dangerous and yet their reaction is only mildly curious.
 

OkieStubble

Dirty Donuts are so Good.
Also keep in mind that even in Texas it is only 3% to 4% of the population that is licensed to carry a gun. So even where there is a so called "gun culture" is is not true that everyone is armed.

In addition, as in the incident in El Paso recently, a significant percentage of the people in the Walmart were likely Mexican citizens over for a day of shopping. By law they are all prevented from being armed so even if there were LTC holders in the crowd they would be an even smaller percentage than the statewide average.

El Paso is also a very liberal city politically like Austin. So the Walmart and shopping strip had “No Concealed Weapons “ signs on the doors. Law abiding gun owners obey these signs leaving their guns in their cars. So it was a “gun free zone” regardless what the media said.
 
I don’t always leave the house with a gun, but I always keep a 1911 in the truck. I know it’s not smart keeping one in it all the time due to burglary and the such, but guns can be easily replaced, my family can not.
 
El Paso is also a very liberal city politically like Austin. So the Walmart and shopping strip had “No Concealed Weapons “ signs on the doors. Law abiding gun owners obey these signs leaving their guns in their cars. So it was a “gun free zone” regardless what the media said.
I did not know that, I assumed all Walmart’s had the same rules, I guess that’s what I get for assuming.
 

jar_

Too Fugly For Free.
El Paso is also a very liberal city politically like Austin. So the Walmart and shopping strip had “No Concealed Weapons “ signs on the doors. Law abiding gun owners obey these signs leaving their guns in their cars. So it was a “gun free zone” regardless what the media said.
The shopping center did but not the Walmart TTBOMK. There were reports that at least two people were armed and in both cases they acted to guide people out of the Walmart and to teach folk how to shelter while acting as a rear guard.

But again, that's not News Worthy cause nothing happened there.
 
While the Bond Arms look very robust and of high quality, my impression (from advertising only) is that their bulk is equal to that of a multi shot alternative. But it would be cool to have one.
I have a Bond Arms Snake Slayer (.45 Colt/.410 Shotshell), and yes, it is heavy. Still, it is relatively easy to carry in a small pocket in a backpack or pants, especially if you've reinforced the pants pocket lining. Put it in a pocket holster and it's even easier. I thought it would be harder to shoot well than it is, at least at the 3-5 yards you would want to shoot it at.
 
It is a different culture and its changing, again. In the last 5 years alone violent crime has increased at a rapid pace and really the only option we have is to avoid, as difficult as that may sound, its really our only legal option. We're at the mercy of the police. No offense intended, but the police usually arrive after the fact. A lot can happen in the 2 minutes between contacting 911 and their arrival.

And if you happen to own personal firearms and use them to defend yourself, you will be the one who gets in trouble, not the criminal
 
I wouldnt have thought everyone was carrying but 4% is surprising. I would have thought maybe 20%, or even higher.

I don't have specific knowledge on the subject but I imagine there's a big difference between the numbers of people who own firearms and the people who carry firearms every day.
 

jar_

Too Fugly For Free.
I don't have specific knowledge on the subject but I imagine there's a big difference between the numbers of people who own firearms and the people who carry firearms every day.
The 4% figure is the Percentage of Texans who hold a current License to Carry (LTC) but remember that many if not most who do have an LTC don't carry every day. Even in Texas there is nothing like 4% of the population actually licensed and carrying on any given day.
 

simon1

Self Ignored by Vista
In Texas it's legal to have a handgun in your car even if you don't have a license. I'm sure a lot of people do, more than any statistics can know about. Not to mention the ranchers and farmers who have rifles and shotguns in their trucks as tools to deal with coyotes and wild hogs.

I have been on police calls where the homeowner had ran off house burglars or car burglars with their handguns they had at home. They acted responsibly; it's the criminals you have to worry about.

This reminds me...I got a notice from the State that I need to renew my handgun license. No big deal.
 
Also keep in mind that even in Texas it is only 3% to 4% of the population that is licensed to carry a gun. So even where there is a so called "gun culture" is is not true that everyone is armed.

While only 3%-4% are licensed to carry, most likely far more are. Just something to keep in mind.

Side note: This reminds me of a man who applied for a CCW permit, and submitted his parole card for ID.
 
I think many of us here in Canada, when the topic comes up of firearms carry, just assume that half the population of a state such as Texas is carrying yet there are never any reports of a random shooter being decked by a citizen. Is that accurate or does it just go unreported by the mass media?

Mostly likely because there just aren't that many truly random shooters. Suspect that even most drive-bys aren't random.
 

jar_

Too Fugly For Free.
While only 3%-4% are licensed to carry, most likely far more are. Just something to keep in mind.

Side note: This reminds me of a man who applied for a CCW permit, and submitted his parole card for ID.
Those that are carrying without having a license are already criminals and so not likely to get involved unless directly endangered.
 

Esox

I didnt know
Staff member
And if you happen to own personal firearms and use them to defend yourself, you will be the one who gets in trouble, not the criminal

You can but only in the defense of life, not property. Its a pretty sticky area legally though.


I don't have specific knowledge on the subject but I imagine there's a big difference between the numbers of people who own firearms and the people who carry firearms every day.

Better to have one and not need it than need one and not have it. If I could carry, I would.
 

Esox

I didnt know
Staff member
If you have a great lawyer maybe, there are far more examples of the gun owners being punished than otherwise

It becomes much trickier if a death is involved. Firearm and ammo storage is a key point and each step needs to be proven. Harder yet to prove is that the attacker, or in my case being a Canadian, the intruder because they have to be inside your house and gained entry forcibly, posed a risk to life and yet I had time to retrieve a firearm, unlock it, unlock the ammo for it, load it and use it in a defense of life situation all while attempting to call 911.

In a home invasion scenario few would have time to do any of that. If the situation shows that you did in fact use a firearm, how did you, becomes the question. Unsafe storage would be the first of many charges. It would cost several thousand dollars to fight all those charges and in the end, most likely, you'd have to surrender your firearms license and all your firearms would be seized.
 
The law on lethal force varies from state to state and how the courts there interpret the law. Most states have a definition at law for what constitutes a justifiable use of lethal force. The usual standard is that the person using lethal force has to have a reasonable expectation of either death or grave injury to themselves or someone else if they didn’t act. Property is not included in the definition. However, often the two are intertwined when the thief is armed.

Some examples of actual cases. One man was shot when he was fleeing an armed robbery. The shooter was convicted of manslaughter. In another case, a man was shot when he was fleeing an armed robbery. The shooter claimed the thief turned around with his gun in plain view and that was when he shot him. His claim was that he thought the thief was about to shoot him and that he had a reasonable fear for this life. He was found not guilty (at a cost of $250,000).

An individual entered a convenience store with a baseball bat. He threatened the clerk with the bat holding it above his shoulder. The clerk took out a handgun and shot him. The homicide was ruled justified. In the same jurisdiction a few years later almost the same scenario. However, this time the thief kept the bat at his side and never raised it. The jury found the clerk was guilty of manslaughter.
 
Those that are carrying without having a license are already criminals and so not likely to get involved unless directly endangered.

Depends on the state. Not having a "gun tote" permit (as the felon who thought he could get one called it) might technically be criminal, which might make someone reluctant to get involved unless their life is in peril. That said, I know of a robbery that would have had a different outcome if a customer hadn't driven up, saw what was happening, and responded with the shotgun he had in his truck. That's not concealed carry, though, but just saying.
 
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