Why do you need to rotate razors?

[Relativo]

Hello, it's me again from England!!!

I've been researching, using, obssessing, spending way too much money on razors and stones over the past year and have yet another question if I may?

I've read various things about the need to rotate razor use, i.e. don't use the same razor everyday.

Does anyone know the reason for this?

I read somewhere (Dovo?) about a fin which "grows" after use.

Quote from the Dovo website:

"Wet shavers of the old school know that the facet (blade) "grows", i.e. the microscopically discernible and extremely fine "fin" on the cutting edge changes during the shave but returns to its old position afterwards; it stretches and again becomes extremely fine. Nevertheless, this fine "fin" will still wear away at some stage and a suitable strop should then be bought."

Can anyone shed any light on this? Any wet shavers from the old school?

Many thanks!

 

[Bacchus]

You rotate razors to justify owning more razors.

This 'growing' fin and 'resting' a razor thing is mainly split into two kinds of people, the people who dont believe it and the ones that do. The latter being the minority.

I personally think it's bull. The old barbers used to use the same straight shave after shave, so why cant we.

And that Dovo excerpt seems like it is insinuating that you dont need a strop at first... You need to strop before every shave

 

[Relativo]

Yeah that Dovo webiste has some interesting information on it that I dont' understand the origin of/reason for.

 

[English]

The reason you rest a razor is because you will get a more comfortable shave from a rested razor.

I wouldn't however suggest a seven day set, although this does offer the advantage of having to rehone the razors a lot less frequently than when you only have two razors shave ready.

Yes you also need to strop the edge before each shave. This process removes the oxidation (rust) that forms on the razors edge and also help to smooth out the razors edge.

The advantage of using just one razor daily, is that the rust causes less damage to the edge over time, but the blade is never quite as smooth. The longer you leave a blade, the more the rust will form and eat the metal. If you live in a dry atmosphere, you may not even notice the rust, but if you live in a humid environment, you will know exactly what I am talking about.
People in Arizona don't have a problem and people on the Asian continent during the rainy season do.

In England, the old barbers did alternate their razors between shaves and usually had five or six razors on the go, rotating them during the course of the day. They would also strop the blade both before and during the shave. Well the barbers that I visited would do this as a norm. Incidentally, they also woud often send there razors off to an expert for rehoning and even for regrinding. It's not that long ago that every man would have a shave at the barbers at least once a week. The barbers used every trick in the book to keep the razors sharp. If they gave a bad shave, they would get no customers, simple as that. They wrote the books that recommended stropping and resting and x pattern honing etc. There is nothing new to the process, although reading the forums you might think there is, as guys claim modern discoveries that are actually centuries old.

What has happened in recent times is that the razor manufacturers have had to resort to using modern steels. Some of these are harder metals that require different honing or are more resistant to rust or that will hold a sharp edge for longer. Now for these modern steels it may be true that they don't need to be rested. I don't know, because although I have tried them, I have not yet found a modern steel that given me as comfortable shave as the old softer carbon steel. So I have sold them on pretty quickly.

Anyway, try it and see and make up your own mind. If it doesn't work for you, don't do it and then you can join the disbelievers camp.

 

[JECIII]

Hello, it's me again from England!!!

I've been researching, using, obssessing, spending way too much money on razors and stones over the past year and have yet another question if I may?

I've read various things about the need to rotate razor use, i.e. don't use the same razor everyday.

Does anyone know the reason for this?

I read somewhere (Dovo?) about a fin which "grows" after use.

Quote from the Dovo website:

"Wet shavers of the old school know that the facet (blade) "grows", i.e. the microscopically discernible and extremely fine "fin" on the cutting edge changes during the shave but returns to its old position afterwards; it stretches and again becomes extremely fine. Nevertheless, this fine "fin" will still wear away at some stage and a suitable strop should then be bought."

Can anyone shed any light on this? Any wet shavers from the old school?

Many thanks!

I believe they are just going deep into the definition of sharp and dull. If you think about it, because we sharpen both sided of our razor and at such an angle, the two sides get closer together the closer you are to the edge. I believe the fin they are talking about is where the blad is so thin that it becomes "floppy". When we use the raser enogh to "flop" this "fin" back and forth enough to remove it it is time to make a new one(strop/hone).

 

[WhosYerBob]

You rotate razors to justify owning more razors.

+1 I don't rotate my DE razors for any reason other than trying to determine which one matches my face and shaving style best. When I find the "one", all the rest will be sold off here on B&B.

 

[richmondesi]

I've tested this a little (by a little I mean no more than 1 week's worth of shaves per razor), and I've not had a razor that didn't provide great shaves the whole week. My favorite explanation is the justification for more razors, but, like Peter said, you have to believe the barbers who wrote all the books on straight razors weren't daft. I don't know that I'll ever truly know the real story behind resting as I'll probably never use one razor long enough to find out. Although, I do know that there are some guys on the boards that do.

Take care

 

[Blaine]

I could see a 7 day set with a barber.

It was like rotating your tires. We shave 1 face a day. He may have shaved 20 or more. 140 shaves a week. He can go through a years worth of wear in a fortnight.

So to keep you off the hones constantly, distribute the wear over 7 razors. Label them even so you know which one you should be on.

Either that or you had tons of spare cash and didn't want to be bothered as often.

 

[mdunn]

no real reason to rotate in terms of the razor. Just ease, marketing and its nice to have lots of razors to play with.

 

[Seraphim]

I could see a 7 day set with a barber.

It was like rotating your tires. We shave 1 face a day. He may have shaved 20 or more. 140 shaves a week. He can go through a years worth of wear in a fortnight.

So to keep you off the hones constantly, distribute the wear over 7 razors. Label them even so you know which one you should be on.

Either that or you had tons of spare cash and didn't want to be bothered as often.

7 day sets were generally owned by the gentleman class, not barbers, is what I gather.


And I don't buy any of the "resting" a razor having any beneficial effect whatsoever. But that's just my opinion.

 

[gugi]

I rotate them because I have more than one and I have more than one so that I can rotate them. I know it's a vicious circle, but somehow it works well for me.

 

[David in Boston]

Because it's fun!

 

[bluefoxicy]

This is a simple enough question from a technical aspect.

Solder contains lead. The reason solder contains lead is tin, left to settle on its own and close to other bits of tin, will begin to grow whiskers; what's happening, really, is there is a capacitance across the air gap between two bits of tin, and the electrical space charge formed puts physical stress on the tin atoms, causing them to flow. Eventually you get shorts, or so they say. The "Tin Whiskers" effect has been seen, but nobody's seen lead-free solder whiskers actually cause a short circuit yet, ever, in anything (i.e. the effect is not dangerous, the hypothetical end result never happens).

Straight razors, of course, aren't used to pass electricity. Still, the functional design of a block of metal is simple: Metal atoms are layered together, and the entire charge of the whole block is held as a bunch of electrons flowing around the outside (a "sea of electrons" or some sort of deflector shield or something). Eddie currents in this "sea of electrons" would occur if you had any surface imperfections in the metal; with an extremely fine blade, for example, small not-straight parts would create ripples.

Well, with the electrical stress these ripples cause, it's entirely plausible that the (still warm from honing/stroping) razor's edge would, over a short time, reflow itself atom by atom, effectively stretching and resting. This of course weakens the material a little; but the continued force applied and the extra energy given by gentle thermal expansion (heating and cooling-- it's colder at night, of course) would help bring the atoms closer together and re-harden the metal.

I don't know about 24-48 hours of resting; but I do know for a fact that metal that's just been flexed or polished is very soft, and becomes very hard after a small period (several hours to several days) of just sitting there. A freshly honed/sharpened blade, for example, I would definitely recommend rinsing in alcohol, coating with a light oil to prevent corrosion, and allowing to set for maybe even a week (who cares, you don't hone them every day; a single day may be enough but whatever).

I would also definitely recommend allowing your straight razor to rest after use and stroping. I can't give a recommendation on the resting period, though; it may be as little as 20 minutes (really, that blade is going to cool off fast), it may be just overnight (so shave with it every day), I can't say. I can say that it definitely needs some sort of break after use and care, but the details escape me.

This is all the information I can give based purely on my limited metallurgic knowledge. As others have said, the barbers that came up with this stuff weren't dumb; they didn't know *** they were doing, but they knew what they were seeing, and apparently they saw extended overall blade life (presumably in number of shaves) from rotating off. To them, the "how" was more important than the "why"; I've given you the "why" but admittedly I can't tell you if the "how" is actually relevant, especially with more modern materials like properly hardened carbon steel (metal is a highly advanced technology, we still can't get Damascus steel quite right and the guy that actually knew died).

Good luck.

EDIT: I've just had a thought on the heating/cooling thing. Did the barber shops have climate control? I mean, at night it can get 10-20 degrees colder... twice...

 

[gugi]

I can't give a recommendation on the resting period, though; it may be as little as 20 minutes (really, that blade is going to cool off fast), it may be just overnight (so shave with it every day), I can't say. I can say that it definitely needs some sort of break after use and care, but the details escape me.

Actually the details are what's really important. Why 20 minutes or 20 days and not 20milliseconds, for example. Without a relevant time-scale that comes from actual experiment or at least from somewhat realistic model any number is just pure BS.

As others have said, the barbers that came up with this stuff weren't dumb; they didn't know *** they were doing, but they knew what they were seeing, and apparently they saw extended overall blade life (presumably in number of shaves) from rotating off.

Actually I would like to have a reference from a barber on this. To the best of my knowledge the only reliable source for this claim for the 'need of rest' is traced back to razor manufacturer, and given the conflict of interest and lack of any justification, I would put exactly zero credibility in it.

EDIT: I've just had a thought on the heating/cooling thing. Did the barber shops have climate control? I mean, at night it can get 10-20 degrees colder... twice...

Actually even during the day the temperature change from a customer opening the door or even from the edge touching the customer's skin can easily be over 100,000,000 nanoKelvin, which has so many zeros that will scare tons of people.
I have infinitesimal knowledge of metallurgy but given the lack of phase transitions at normal conditions I would claim that even a 100K temperature difference held for days will cause no effect important to shaving.

For those interested in running their own calculations the blade thickness is over 0.1micrometer and the thermal conductivity of steel is between 10-50W/(mK).

 

[bluefoxicy]

Actually the details are what's really important. Why 20 minutes or 20 days and not 20milliseconds, for example. Without a relevant time-scale that comes from actual experiment or at least from somewhat realistic model any number is just pure BS.

Yep, that's why I didn't set down any solid recommendations. As noted, the thing about honing is a wild guess on time, with a huge safety margin. The metal does heat when manipulated, and needs to cool, etc etc, everything I said makes physical sense but none of it really equates to even a vague procedural doctrine.

But that's "why" you need to rest razors. As to if it makes any real sense (hint: if they need a 20 minute rest... you're not using them 24 hours a day, thus "resting" makes zero real sense), I have no comment.

 

[gugi]

But that's "why" you need to rest razors. As to if it makes any real sense (hint: if they need a 20 minute rest... you're not using them 24 hours a day, thus "resting" makes zero real sense), I have no comment.

I still don't understand what do you mean by 'it needs rest'. As far as I'm concerned the stropping makes much bigger difference to the metal than any 'resting' at room temperatures. I mean anybody can claim the need for whatever, but it has to be based on some sound reasoning....